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Post by vincent on May 25, 2021 15:52:34 GMT -5
My internet is acting out right now so i probably won't be able to watch it tonight. But i'll make sure to not read your comment before i watched it fully.
tbcd.
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Post by Roshan on May 27, 2021 11:47:56 GMT -5
Okay, so, pretty obviously, the main feature of Barby's Israel video is how he chose to attempt to defuse the heated partisan enmity by enacting both 'parties' from 13'03" to 16'53". This seems to be a remarkable example of fourth slot Fi finding. He tried to discriminate what was of essential value to both sides and to dramatize it in a way that would be, if not palatable, at least digestible, to all. Basically, Palestinian and Israeli Barby's responses, for better and for worse, become enmeshed, they mirror each other, the intent being for the audience not to be able to despise or ridicule one without having to reflect on the other. So it's not just about Barby 'finding Fi' but about him really giving it the old college try to get his audience to as well. And he succeeded to a large extent but he still had a lot more dislikes than usual. And while some commenters attributed this to the intrinsic subject matter, that's not the whole story. It's tied to his Fi still being inferior and he would have had fewer dislikes if it weren't (or if it were more integrated, he'd worked with a dual, etc.) This Fi problem isn't so much in the 'skit' as pervasive at key points throughout the video, and I think what went wrong with Fi inferior-- which in his case implies Ni PolR, they go together--is more interesting than what went right with it. So next I'm going to go through the video and put down the time stamps where it failed on this front, but without doubt his assertion that Palestinian-Jewish Israeli relations are 'chill' if you just 'don't talk about that one thing' seemed worst and most emblematic. For all the pains he took not to offend either side, he simply doesn't understand the implications of completely erasing the Occupied Territories from any sweeping observations on ethnic relations in a video called "Israel". His categorical TeSi perception of Israel as Israel, of Israel conceivably being innocuously 'just Israel', is itself the problem. And it's Fi inferior and very Ni PolR. Ah, the best laid Te and Si of mice and men...
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Post by vincent on May 27, 2021 12:44:30 GMT -5
Okay, so, pretty obviously, the main feature of Barby's Israel video is how he chose to attempt to defuse the heated partisan enmity by enacting both 'parties' from 13'03" to 16'53". This seems to be a remarkable example of fourth slot Fi finding. He tried to discriminate what was of essential value to both sides and to dramatize it in a way that would be, if not palatable, at least digestible, to all. Basically, Palestinian and Israeli Barby's responses, for better and for worse, become enmeshed, they mirror each other, the intent being for the audience not to be able to despise or ridicule one without having to reflect on the other. So it's not just about Barby 'finding Fi' but about him really giving it the old college try to get his audience to as well.
This part caught me a bit off guard.
I didn't expect him to try that. Let alone to reasonably succeed in doing so.
For the first 10 minutes or so it sounded like the video would end without reaching the heart of it.
And then this...
I absolutely agree that it is a remarkable example of Fi finding.
Yes, it really is.
This "chill" thing really struck me too.
So did "kids are more interested in entertainment and money than they are in ideological disputes" @9"40"
Especially since it would have been easy enough and fair enough to not say it at all.
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Post by Roshan on May 27, 2021 12:52:19 GMT -5
I think it has something to do with the 'awe' and 'dread' aspects of N vincent . His Fi finding brought the moth too close to the heart of the flame...so, he had to douse it with 'positive attitude'. It feels like it harkens back to the self back patting for Ne flag planting I mentioned early on. Only this time it's...a little crazy actually. "Slightly unhinged", as we say in French.
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Post by vincent on May 27, 2021 13:00:42 GMT -5
I think it has something to do with the 'awe' and 'dread' aspects of N vincent . His Fi finding brought the moth too close to the heart of the flame...so, he had to douse it with 'positive attitude'. It feels like it harkens back to the self back patting for Ne flag planting I mentioned in the OP. early on. Only this time it's...a little crazy actually. "Slightly unhinged", as we say in French. Well, he mentions the fact that Israel's military has universal conscription for both genders only at 17'41''. As some kind of Si trivia. Right after something about the "jewish customs" and right before something about the education level.
There is definitely a big component of "positive attitude" at play.
And i absolutely agree it has something to do with the "awe" and "dread" aspect of N.
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Post by vincent on May 27, 2021 13:24:44 GMT -5
At 6'11'', after he listed the "historically significant landmarks" of the area, he says "Allright that was pretty intense". I guess it might have been consciously referring to that whole segment of the video.
But the thing is, this litany of names of sacred sites was certainly pretty intense for him in itself already.
(edit : i got to go for now, tbcd soon)
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Post by Roshan on May 28, 2021 8:28:30 GMT -5
So did "kids are more interested in entertainment and money than they are in ideological disputes" @9"40"
Especially since it would have been easy enough and fair enough to not say it at all.
In a way he seems to be 'willing it so'. It kind of feels like he feels that since he went through the harrowing of hell for peace in our time, taking a dangerous dive into his fourth and even having a brush with his PolR, now the two parties owe it to him to be at peace, and goddamit it, he's gonna make sure they are. By declaring it so. In this sense both his carelessness about and insistence on this 'enhanced positivity', as it were, can be seen as an Se sixth stress movement. Not to mention that he really seems to feel at liberty to berate 'us' (the audience-at-large) to let off steam for the sake of peace in our time between 'them'. No one's gonna push him around here, no sirreee...in fact he often seemed SeTi-ish to me in this video.
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Post by Roshan on May 28, 2021 8:39:15 GMT -5
Who conquered the Holy Land?Barby!What do we believe in? Geography Now!
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Post by Roshan on May 28, 2021 10:04:48 GMT -5
This Fi problem isn't so much in the 'skit' as pervasive at key points throughout the video, and I think what went wrong with Fi inferior-- which in his case implies Ni PolR, they go together--is more interesting than what went right with it. So next I'm going to go through the video and put down the time stamps where it failed on this front, but without doubt his assertion that Palestinian-Jewish Israeli relations are 'chill' if you just 'don't talk about that one thing' seemed worst and most emblematic. For all the pains he took not to offend either side, he simply doesn't understand the implications of completely erasing the Occupied Territories from any sweeping observations on ethnic relations in a video called "Israel". His categorical TeSi perception of Israel as Israel, of Israel conceivably being innocuously 'just Israel', is itself the problem. And it's Fi inferior and very Ni PolR. Ah, the best laid Te and Si of mice and men... Intro: He ask why are all the world's eyes on this tiny sliver of land smaller than El Salvador? A more interesting question is why are his, or at least why is his mouth, in the specific way that it is at this time? Global mind tells me that three days before this video was published, the Eastern Syria campaign of the Syrian Civil War was launched. The Trump administration's bombing of the Syrian airbase was several months before, but it wasn't at all clear what the alliances and who the realpolitik kings, king makers, and breakers would be in the region. What was clear was that nothing going on in that hot war and massive refugee crisis--mirroring the Palestinians' (and decades before, the European Jews') could be seen as separate from the situation in the tiny sliver of land for multiple reasons, and to so energetically frame this entire video and the ethnic/political tensions in 'Israel' as existing in a complete vacuum is already fishy to a Palestinian sympathizer. Then he goes on @1'18" to accuse and defy the keyboard warriors typing in caps lock and immediately goes on to show the map, which of course includes Syria. @2'56" "While everyone was taking forever to decide what to do" after the Six Day War, "Israelis just kind of moved into the West Bank anyway since they figured the armistice line was no longer under cease fire status". Eventually they gave the Sinai back to Egypt "but then by the time they addressed the West Bank there were already 100,000 Israelis living there and that's when things got kind of messy". Um...no. They got messy because the Israeli government encouraged those settlements. This is Te >>>>Fi with an Se>>>Ni that sounds all the more disingenuous because he seems so clueless, though in some sense he really does seem to be. "After all the settlements got set up in the West Bank, it kind of chopped up the map into pockety neighborhood islands". Did it now? If you say so. He obviously talks about Israeli government policy as though it were an earthquake or some other natural disaster.
Well, I think this is enough time stamping. As I said, it's throughout the video and I'm not a social scientist nor do I claim to be; he does. Good skit, heroic attempt, but Fi inferior doesn't see its own biases and so Ni PolR remains...sub-Arctic. And this is why in the comments so many Israelis told him what a great video he made--with some posters marveling at the number of dislikes. After all, he even made a skit. What could possibly go wrong?
Only an intolerant person could possibly dislike the video.
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Post by Roshan on May 28, 2021 10:28:57 GMT -5
"After all the settlements got set up in the West Bank, it kind of chopped up the map into pockety neighborhood islands". Did it now? If you say so. He obviously talks about Israeli government policy as though it were an earthquake or some other natural disaster.
btw his use of the passive voice and impersonal pronoun is a truly impressive example of weasel words, but the thing is he honestly doesn't seem to know what a weasel he's being. Which, in light of Peterson's rhetorical techniques we've looked at, I'll conjecture is not UNrelated to Te seeking Fi.
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Post by Roshan on May 28, 2021 12:45:11 GMT -5
"I'm not a social scientist nor do I claim to be; he does." To dot the t's and cross my eyes , it could be argued that psychology is a social science and that I claim to be doing it, but I was thinking of history, geography, sociology, economics, political science and anthropology here. I always hated all the names of the categories. At least now I know "why". "Ni frame". (Itself a category).
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Post by vincent on May 28, 2021 12:50:08 GMT -5
In a way he seems to be 'willing it so'. It kind of feels like he feels that since he went through the harrowing of hell for peace in our time, taking a dangerous dive into his fourth and even having a brush with his PolR, now the two parties owe it to him to be at peace, and goddamit it, he's gonna make sure they are. By declaring it so. In this sense both his carelessness about and insistence on this 'enhanced positivity', as it were, can be seen as an Se sixth stress movement. Not to mention that he really seems to feel at liberty to berate 'us' (the audience-at-large) to let off steam for the sake of peace in our time between 'them'.
Riiight.
Se 6th "willing it so" makes a LOT of sense to me.
Yes, i agree he is sometimes quite SeTi-ish in this one.
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Post by vincent on May 28, 2021 13:08:37 GMT -5
Intro: He ask why are all the world's eyes on this tiny sliver of land smaller than El Salvador? A more interesting question is why are his, or at least why is his mouth, in the specific way that it is at this time? Global mind tells me that three days before this video was published, the Eastern Syria campaign of the Syrian Civil War was launched. The Trump administration's bombing of the Syrian airbase was several months before, but it wasn't at all clear what the alliances and who the realpolitik kings, king makers, and breakers would be in the region. What was clear was that nothing going on in that hot war and massive refugee crisis--mirroring the Palestinians' (and decades before, the European Jews') could be seen as separate from the situation in the tiny sliver of land for multiple reasons, and to so energetically frame this entire video and the ethnic/political tensions in 'Israel' as existing in a complete vacuum is already fishy to a Palestinian sympathizer. Then he goes on @1'18" to accuse and defy the keyboard warriors typing in caps lock and immediately goes on to show the map, which of course includes Syria.
Ok then... that context makes this specific moment of bravado, and the whole video itself i guess, even more SeTi-ish.
Yes, he really does seem to be clueless. But it's also very systematic. I mean, he does something like that pretty much everytime he says "kind of".
Right, and btw, this intolerant person would already be out of his community. Since he told us right from the start that this video was the result of his honest efforts to aggregate all the messages sent by his community about Israel.
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Post by Roshan on May 28, 2021 21:40:08 GMT -5
Then he goes on @1'18" to accuse and defy the keyboard warriors typing in caps lock and immediately goes on to show the map, which of course includes Syria.
Ok then... that context makes this specific moment of bravado, and the whole video itself i guess, even more SeTi-ish.
Mmmm...no, I don't think he was SeTi-ish with bravado in response to the background Syria/greater regional context; I think he actually wasn't making those associations. What was clear was clear to those who cared to know but not to him. This not caring to know showed the bias. To those and only those who cared to know.
Yes, he really does seem to be clueless. But it's also very systematic. I mean, he does something like that pretty much everytime he says "kind of".
Well he does seem triple attached so there are three roads leading to stress point Nine.
Right, and btw, this intolerant person would already be out of his community. Since he told us right from the start that this video was the result of his honest efforts to aggregate all the messages sent by his community about Israel.
I wonder if he deletes negative comments.
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Post by vincent on May 29, 2021 2:50:24 GMT -5
Ok then... that context makes this specific moment of bravado, and the whole video itself i guess, even more SeTi-ish.
Mmmm...no, I don't think he was SeTi-ish with bravado in response to the background Syria/greater regional context; I think he actually wasn't making those associations. What was clear was clear to those who cared to know but not to him. This not caring to know showed the bias. To those and only those who cared to know.
Oh, I agree he wasn't making those associations. But that's the thing. There is something SeTi-ishly qixotic in chasing giants while actual wars are being fought. Right, and btw, this intolerant person would already be out of his community. Since he told us right from the start that this video was the result of his honest efforts to aggregate all the messages sent by his community about Israel.
I wonder if he deletes negative comments.
Well, that seem quite plausible to me. I would expect of channel of this size to generate at least some negativity, even if the community is very close-knit.
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