ahmed
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 166
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
|
Post by ahmed on Feb 5, 2021 15:50:02 GMT -5
But anyway, did you never got a glimpse of supervision by listening to Peterson ?
"Clean your room" works with me. Sometimes.
I do get a certain kick, depending on which version of Peterson I'm watching (Peterson's type confuses me sometimes) huh..With how socionists usually define the slots, I usually took it as implying to favor internalized "facts" rather than ones completely external to the self. Which does seem to be extrapolated from what Te polr "should" appear like theoretically, but why Si polr? Sequentiality in concepts, I can work with that. But protocol based, I *think*, If I have to, I can handle being in that situation by completely pushing through it without thinking about steps (take the hammer and just bash it and it will work eventually) If I can't...usually a big "huh wot" follows. (But I guess, this is probably what would count as Ti-Se workaround^)
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Feb 5, 2021 16:03:29 GMT -5
The problem with ordinality and sequentiality is interesting because it may not occur with the exact same subject matter using the introverted orientation of the third row when it's developed, i.e not with Ti. For some reason the NiFe or SiFe will be perfectly capable of following the order (better than most Te people) as long as the process is internal.
Yes indeed.
And we can also follow the order right when it comes from a very explicit and direct external source (our TeNi supervisor, Te auxiliary people, well developed Te agenda people).
And in this case, following the order is actually another way of taking the Path Of Least Resistance.
"Do you as you're told, in the precise order you're told, so you won't have to actually process Te".
Yes, absolutely.
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Feb 5, 2021 16:18:42 GMT -5
huh..With how socionists usually define the slots, I usually took it as implying to favor internalized "facts" rather than ones completely external to the self. Which does seem to be extrapolated from what Te polr "should" appear like theoretically, but why Si polr?
Well, i've seen this tendency to equate "facts" with T in socionics communities.
I'm not sure if it's actually the case of the main authors.
I suspect it's more like a "drifting" from the initial concepts.
But anyway, "facts" aren't a T thing. It's actually a S one.
T deals with complexity (systems, models, structures).
It's usually Si polr that has major issues with the cristallization of facts into encyclopedic "sources".
Yes it would.
The Fe workaround would be to give a name to whatever you're trying to work with, sweet talk it and beg it into being nice with you. For once.
(i'm only half joking here, i actually do stuff like that, sometimes, anthropomorphizing things to apprehend them better)
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 16:22:00 GMT -5
Sequentiality in concepts, I can work with that. That's what I meant. Te PolR is better here than most Te people if the Ti is developed. But then even if the concepts just have to be explained, suddenly there is a fuzz factor and garbled communication. Especially a right thing, wrong time factor. (Didn't say that thing because wanted to see what the next thirty things that came up would be in case...of course they would not formulate it as 'thirty things', which is already Te, but still....I believe there may be a lot of internal visualizing going on...).
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Feb 5, 2021 16:25:06 GMT -5
Needless to say, that doesn't work much better than bashing things with a hammer.
But that's the thing with interfacing polr (Both Te polr and Fe polr). They are very very situational. and because of that, often inavoidable.
When a specific situation calls for Te (or Fe), then it calls for it. And then chances are that workaround won't work much.
If at all.
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Feb 5, 2021 16:38:01 GMT -5
Te PolR is better here than most Te people if the Ti is developed.
Right, and i think this is true for the F domain too.
Fe polr being better than most Fe people if the Fi is developed.
And this has something to do with the fact that introverted and extraverted judging functions are good in different ways. I'll make a post about this soon.
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Feb 5, 2021 16:45:55 GMT -5
but still....I believe there may be a lot of internal visualizing going on...).
Yes, definitely.
Actually, it still kind of baffles me that Te people don't even need that internal visualizing to do what they do.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 17:06:00 GMT -5
"it still kind of baffles me that Te people don't even need that internal visualizing to do what they do."A Guide for the Perplexed: Maybe the T is visualizing us. (hardy har har )
|
|
anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
|
Post by anthony on Feb 6, 2021 3:11:59 GMT -5
As a TiNe, I feel like I can get to Te through Ti -- if all of the variables are properly collected(Ne) and logically distilled(Ti and Ni), you'll end up with multiple possible 'solutions,' and then it's easy to do things like optimizing for efficiency(interface with Te).
For a brief moment, I wondered why NiFe couldn't do the same. But, if their hidden-agenda function(what seems like the 'ego,' "what you are," what you get HUNG UP on) is Ti. Is the reason they can't reach Te because they get 'stuck' in Ti? Am I conceiving of the hidden-agenda/PoLR dynamic correctly?
Anyways, Ahmed's approach to deciphering the socionics information out there seems Ti hidden-agenda and Te PoLR at the same time. He ends his deductions with "this doesn't really make sense" because the subject matter itself seems logically inconsistent to him, but I sense a certain...doubtfulness, or 'fear' perhaps, regarding how these systems work and whether or not he can trust them. He seems to leave it at "you can't trust the information on the internet out there," while disregarding the series of steps(what was DONE, the interfacing), which actually lead to that information even being there. His T, overall, remains continually unfinished.
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Feb 6, 2021 8:17:05 GMT -5
As a TiNe, I feel like I can get to Te through Ti -- if all of the variables are properly collected(Ne) and logically distilled(Ti and Ni), you'll end up with multiple possible 'solutions,' and then it's easy to do things like optimizing for efficiency(interface with Te). For a brief moment, I wondered why NiFe couldn't do the same. But, if their hidden-agenda function(what seems like the 'ego,' "what you are," what you get HUNG UP on) is Ti. Is the reason they can't reach Te because they get 'stuck' in Ti? Am I conceiving of the hidden-agenda/PoLR dynamic correctly?
It works the other way around.
NiFe sometimes get stuck in Ti in order to NOT reach Te.
(but might as well move and get stuck in Fe auxiliary and in demonstrative Fi)
Avoidance is a core aspect of PolR. It's structural.
Being stuck in Ti isn't a core aspect of agenda.
It's only conjunctural
It's not so much about "the information on the internet out there" (which would be a S thing rather than a T one).
It's about the actual explanatory POWER of the systems.
The Te polr/Ti tertiary question/doubt/distrust is something like "is it really possible to deduce those real, actual, practical consequences from that set of theoretical premises and that logical matrix ?" (and in this specific case about socionics, it's definitely not possible. The Ti tertiary/Te polr doubt are definitely warranted).
Also, being continually unfinished is a side effect of agenda being an absolute value slot.
If you absolutely value a function, you will never be completely "done" with it. You won't allow or tolerate expedient precocious closure.
The same thing could be said for frame.
|
|
anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
|
Post by anthony on Feb 7, 2021 8:18:48 GMT -5
I know that the main topic of discussion here has been ahmed's CT type, but what about his E-configuration? Mainly from the video, I'm thinking it's 9w1(1w2)-5w6(6w7)-3w2(4w3)? Something close to that. I still wonder if the stacking was sp/SO, but I know Roshan's initial impression was So/Sx, and to me, he does energetically seem to have higher Sx.
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Feb 7, 2021 16:43:05 GMT -5
There is quite a few things i'm not sure yet regarding ahmed enneagram type. how much sx, how little sp, how much 1...
But i wonder... how do you/do you even self-type, enneagram wise ahmed ?
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on Feb 7, 2021 17:41:26 GMT -5
I still wonder if the stacking was sp/SO, but I know Roshan 's initial impression was So/Sx, and to me, he does energetically seem to have higher Sx. Well, sp/SO can give quite high impression of sx; this is one of the issues at play now on the Tori Amos thread. But I'll have to watch ahmed's video again.
|
|
ahmed
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 166
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
|
Post by ahmed on Feb 7, 2021 19:12:43 GMT -5
i wonder... how do you/do you even self-type, enneagram wise ahmed ?
I never really gotten into enneagram, at a certain point i dabbled for a short bit and 953 made the most sense (which anthony also agreed on) I thought 9w1 & 5w6 but not sure bout 3's wing, and didnt look much in the instincts. Generally as of late, I have been trying to get a sense of how each tritype *could* appear visually in my head, but that's about it really.👀
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on Feb 7, 2021 20:25:57 GMT -5
ahmed, why do you suppose it is that you feel so much pull toward 'jct' and so little toward e of p?
|
|