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Post by Admin on Oct 19, 2020 10:46:00 GMT -5
btw vincent, thinking obvious 8 but bizarrely interpersonally un-eightlike Fidel Castro rhapsodizing about the damn tree. for all the world as schmaltzy as E. Michael Jones is SeTi creative subtype in extreme shadow mode, not SiTe. Thinking in a kinda duh-ish way actually. --Roshan of the HMS Thread Mover.
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 11:02:04 GMT -5
btw vincent , thinking obvious 8 but bizarrely interpersonally un-eightlike Fidel Castro rhapsodizing about the damn tree. for all the world as schmaltzy as E. Michael Jones is SeTi creative subtype in extreme shadow mode, not SiTe. Thinking in a kinda duh-ish way actually. --Roshan of the HMS Thread Mover.
Hmmm maybe yes... We considered that option iirc, but i don't remember exactly why we rejected it for the opposite configuration.
Besides the fact we didn't knew at the time how SiTe-ish shadowing SeTi can become, of course.
I'll reread the thread.
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Post by Admin on Oct 19, 2020 11:04:03 GMT -5
I put in the original long video the lawyers' Biden commentary came from. You can hop around it and see the many angles and attitudes of Barnes. But always that personable but don't touch poker face...(and also pretty sure he's Six-fixed, his 5 is IN the 8--and in the pretty heavy sp cover). Barnes is definitely SeTi. vincent you are right that 'pop eyes' are not 'vultological qualia' for Se. It is the darting eyes. And btw for anyone to think that pop eyes COULD be 'qualia' for BOTH Se AND 5...
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 11:17:56 GMT -5
Anyhoo, this guy is just too similar in his formulations to TPAS for me to not see him as SeTi, and in any case, being Fe PolR I just don't get Fe from him the way I would with my supervisor. His affect is too flat for Fe dom imo. SeTi with its absolute value Fe can seem very approachable if the Se isn't so much on the predator side.
Yes, i'm pretty positive he is SeTi (deep in SiTe shadow) with a LOT of striking similarity with TPAS.
There is several things at play here, i think :
-The "overlay" of french culture kind of "tone down" the predatory expression of Se.
Especially since he sits comfortably in the Ne role of the "intellectual" here.
Everything he says here is stuff he has said hundreds of time. It's routine exercise for him.
Very little actual ideation, very little actual work. And most of the Ni he peacocks and most the Si he unignores aren't even his. (but more on that later...).
-the context of the video kind of "pull out" Fe agenda : unlike TPAS and Beast1, Soral is a recognized beta Chief, speaking to an established, stable and already convinced tribe. So yes, he is shepherding, pretty efficiently actually, but that's Fe 3rd and Te 6th.
-his ISTJ shadow is so strong (yet still "high functioning") that he IS basically a "rational", as adrian put it. A J type indeed. Intellectually and ideologically ossified, who lost his P spontaneity along the way.
Beta extravert J type, yes. But not FeNi.
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Post by Roshan on Oct 19, 2020 11:28:57 GMT -5
Well vincent , anthony and adrian are Fe inferior and ignoring, respectively. So, like me, they want and need Fe so they are sensitive to it, are looking for it, but they don't need it desperately like Fe PolR, nor are they simultaneously repulsed by and drawn by it. So it's easy to see the Fe agenda, here situationally enhanced as you point out, as Fe frame. But no. That guy couldn't supervise me out of a brown paper bag. This is an alchemical process: a Tim Black, a Daniel Leupkner, a Jimmy Webb, will just draw me into the collective swim--with me still kicking to stay in the water oc .
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Post by Roshan on Oct 19, 2020 11:53:14 GMT -5
-his ISTJ shadow is so strong (yet still "high functioning")
Well, that's the problem with SeTi, isn't it? With stress movement still to Te sixth demo ultimately, the more they disintegrate, the more 'efficient' they are.
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 11:55:10 GMT -5
Yes indeed.
Yes. This is absolutely spot on, imo.
When shadow Si and Ti melds, it becomes pedantic and dogmatic.
It becomes ideological.
Soral isn't analyzing and interpreting anything here, strictly speaking.
He effectively avoids any form of actual discerning.
He isn't thinking nor intuiting, he is just rehearsing a few ideological talking points.
And in this paranoid pseudo-logic, everything becomes further proof of the "Theory of Everyone", indeed.
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 11:59:14 GMT -5
Well vincent , anthony and adrian are Fe inferior and ignoring, respectively. So, like me, they want and need Fe so they are sensitive to it, are looking for it, but they don't need it desperately like Fe PolR, nor are they simultaneously repulsed by and drawn by it. So it's easy to see the Fe agenda, here situationally enhanced as you point out, as Fe frame. But no. That guy couldn't supervise me out of a brown paper bag. This is an alchemical process: a Tim Black, a Daniel Leupkner, a Jimmy Webb, will just draw me into the collective swim--with me still kicking to stay in the water oc .
Yes. If there was any chance that he was Fe frame, you would feel and know it.
In my case, being Fe aux, i kinda see "through" his Fe. I see the expedient Ti spider weaving behing it, so to speak, trying to web together the heterogeneous components of his flock.
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 12:01:25 GMT -5
-his ISTJ shadow is so strong (yet still "high functioning")
Well, that's the problem with SeTi, isn't it? With stress movement still to Te sixth demo ultimately, the more they disintegrate, the more 'efficient' they are.
Yes indeed.
They become experts at being highly functionally dysfunctional.
And with more disintegration and more un-ignoring of Si 5th, they internalize it even more.
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 12:32:40 GMT -5
One thing that the younger among us might have missed is that Soral is actually upholding a tradition here.
Or at least he is trying to, in a kind of absurd and desperate way.
The thing is, this guy started his political and intellectual career as a member of the Communist Party. He was, and in a way he still is, an orthodox, old school Marxist.
In this video, he is basically delivering, in autopilot mode, a classic "class struggle analysis" of the "relations of production".
He still "talk the talk", and he still quotes the Ancestors. And he obviously feel compeled to show it.
Even if no one in his young and mostly far right followership gives a fuck.
Even if there is no actual reason to do so.
That's warped Si 5th, not Si polr.
While Beast1 (with Si 6th/Ne polr) is an actual Nazi, with all the Blut und Boden obsessions and all the pagan nostalgia that comes with it, Beast2 (with Si 5th/Ne role) is an archetypal "Red-Brown". A leftist gone fascist.
His roots are a lot less archaic and "earthy" than Varg's ones. Soral is many things, but certainly not an agrarian utopist.
For all his lyrical rhetorics about the "producers", Soral has no real attachment to the Land, no sense of the ground, and no idea of the Druid Tree.
And that's another layer of the irony of this video :
He IS himself one of those rootless cosmopolitan intellectuals who write their books in planes.
he is himself a Beta nomad, gone Delta. Projecting his hate against "the international community".
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 12:50:51 GMT -5
Interestingly enough Soral first books were :
-one book about "youth fashion explained to their parents"
-one novel about street life and bad boys.
-one semi-intellectual book about the Noble Art of picking up girls in the street. ("Sociologie du dragueur")
SeTi as hell, as you can see.
Too SeTi for the Zeitgeist actually.
The mediatic reception of this third book made him both famous and infamous pretty much instantly.
He became a regular "guest" of TV shows, expected (and entrapped) to play the role of the resident anti-feminist machist. It was in 1996. After that, things went downhill pretty fast. In 2011, already deep in SiTe shadow, he wrote his Magnum Opus : "Comprendre l'Empire". (Yup, Understanding the Empire, i'm not making that up...) Now, no one will invite him anywhere anymore.
He has been condemned by the french justice multiple times, has been banned from Youtube. Multiple times.
And he finally landed on Bitchute like so many other "Beasts".
He is definitely one of Plato's spirited men. And once again you can see the pattern of how and why they go in shadow mode, depending on how they are treated.
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Oct 19, 2020 13:25:48 GMT -5
All of this makes a lot of sense and is extremely interesting. I can see the parallels between SeTi and NeTi shadow mode, actually, it's as though they become 'scrappy' and use whatever information they can gather via their role to manipulate for 'efficiency' via Te. It's like bullshitting one's way into either overthrowing or outsmarting upheld law and tradition, aided by Ti second functioning situationally. When in shadow mode, and in contrast to their appearance, nothing is 'settled' nor are they seeking real settlement or codification. Everything becomes interfacing and action for them.
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 14:28:27 GMT -5
Well, in a way, it was always about interfacing and action.
Considering the structure of absolute and relative value slots.
But that's the thing : shadowing doesn't realy change or reverse this structure. If anything, it exacerbate it. It stretches it, so to speak.
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Post by vincent on Oct 19, 2020 14:49:09 GMT -5
Another thing about Soral :
The movement he created is called "Egalité et réconciliation".
It's explicitly situated on the far right of the political spectrum, but with a distinctly left-ish positioning, pretending to offer "critical support" to LePen Front National.
His central idea is, basically, that the french (white) proletariat and the masses of muslim migrants should "reconcile" to avoid an otherwise ineluctable civil war, engineered by [The International Community] aka the Jews.
And his better (or more crypsic) days, his "line" can even get almost philo-antisemitic in its own right.
He will, for example, maintain a distinction between "le juif du quotidien" (everyday life Jew) and the Elders of Zion like Soros and Attali. The later are evil, but the former might still be "saved from the backlash".
Of course, unlike TPAS, Soral has a tribe, and he is in a position to present himself as a Savior, or as some kind of St John the Baptist.
But there is some similarity between this and the "mission" of TPAS.
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Post by Roshan on Oct 19, 2020 18:54:46 GMT -5
H e absolutely strikes me as JePi, both energistically and with respect to the way he speaks. He seems to wield introverted perception, involving an elucidation of information that's 'continuous' and in-flux, drawing connections between different events as related to a generalized, subjective perception of them and what those things represent in an 'objective,' systematized world. I think it's Pi second. So it's beta PeJi in delta shadow PiJe. So the Pi is being seen as his second function both because in the 'base metabolism' introversion IS second and because in the shadowing Pi is actually frame. Same criss-crossing and averaging out going on with J. "He seems to wield introverted perception" because although in shadowing it's his frame, it is still instrumental fifth (wielded). You can explain a lot of this better than me but ykwim anthony .
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