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Post by vincent on Oct 12, 2020 15:01:33 GMT -5
Ok... time for a new episode of Type the Beast.
(for reference the first episode can be found HERE) This one shouldn't be a hard typing, i think, and i expect a consensus on his ct type to be reached quite easily. But the thing is, it seems to me that this specific video is highly relevant, typologically, for several reasons. What do you guys think ? Roshan anthony Amy adrian voidberry jastyne
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anthony
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Post by anthony on Oct 14, 2020 11:39:26 GMT -5
He absolutely strikes me as JePi, both energistically and with respect to the way he speaks. He seems to wield introverted perception, involving an elucidation of information that's 'continuous' and in-flux, drawing connections between different events as related to a generalized, subjective perception of them and what those things represent in an 'objective,' systematized world. I think it's Pi second.
I'm inclined to say it's Ni second and that he's Beta quadra, so FeNi. This guy used the connection between nomads as predators who produce nothing and how they extort the societal 'sedentaries,' and in a very preachy, "us vs. them" manner, almost as if to stimulate a sort of "passionate action for the whole," which ultimately seems beta.
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adrian
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Post by adrian on Oct 14, 2020 15:10:21 GMT -5
I've never heard of this man and I find him interesting. Soral serves as the corollary or counterpart to Varg (our Beast One), perhaps even dual of Varg. Both have very nationalistic tendencies (from what I can tell of of Soral) albeit in two different varieties. Varg wants Norway to return to its mythic Norse roots, pre-modernity and pre-Christianity. If Varg is the ante-capitalist, then Soral is an anti-capitalist (speculating here) informed by both Marx and the anti-globalist narratives of a contingent of the right-wing. Both view neoliberalism as alienating and parasitic. There's something to be said about the contracting nature of the beta quadra. You would think with their emphasis on strength and glory would make the quadra would be imperialistic - the stronger tribe has the right to take over the weaker tribe, but for beta quadra, strength comes in the form of shared values and sentiments at the most basic level. Shared values that both emerge from and create myths, narratives, destinies. (Not to mention that imperialism seems more Te in that it has primarily to do with material/economic consolidation and power and I can see why Roshan and vincent call the Delta quadra "The Empire"). Neoliberalism is expansive, homogenizing, and imperialistic is the same way the old European powers would colonize the global south and destroy its native cultures. There's a war between the globalists (nomad-predators, neoliberals) and the tribalists (producer-sedentaries, primitivists), and for Varg and Soral this fight is not just an ideological one but one where the health and survival of their culture/side is at stake. I think I'm starting to further realize the sectarian nature of Beta. To non-betas the conflict on may seem ideological and abstract on the surface, but for the beta it is so much more. The world is an arena for differing ideologies to clash with and displace each other, and a lot is at stake. To further comment on Soral's type, he's definitely a Beta rational, and I agree with FeNi. His articulation is smooth and continuous. His primary mode is to interface with the world in real time and its casual relations and with Ni second and weaves different events together into a singular, subjective perception as anthony mentioned. In contrast to Varg, I can see Soral as a populist while Varg is more overtly elitist. I can imagine Sorel shepherding others to his cause, while Varg's ideology is for a select few and is exclusive.
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Post by vincent on Oct 14, 2020 15:33:56 GMT -5
What do you mean by "rational" in that context ?
(I've seen the word used to refer to NT and ST types, but never for NF ones)
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adrian
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Post by adrian on Oct 14, 2020 16:19:49 GMT -5
What do you mean by "rational" in that context ?
(I've seen the word used to refer to NT and ST types, but never for NF ones)
I've seen the functions be divided into into rational/irrational. Rational being the judging functions and irrational being the perceiving functions. In this case Beta rational = beta J-lead
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Post by Roshan on Oct 15, 2020 9:08:37 GMT -5
Both view neoliberalism as alienating and parasitic. And Jewish. They seem to live in a fantasy where if Jews had not existed as the parasitic middlemen Europe would be some kind of Camelot, and Camelot was perfect. Also anyone who isn't Jewish who has colluded with this parasitic class isn't responsible; there is this underlying belief that the Jews have this mesmerizing hold on everyone else which absolves 'Gentiles' of responsibilty. So they don't realize that they are presenting "themselves" ('all Christendom' ultimately, as was said in the Medieval period) as weak and emasculated. It's all very very very social Six stuff (which is not to say that's our Beasts' leading E-type). There is more than merit in analyzing the role of Jews and Judaism in the development of neoliberal vulture capitalism (and its reversible raincoat, Communism), but what constantly winds up shining through is the 6 L6 Authoritarian Rebel's--with its top and bottom of the range L8 Paranoid Hysteric's and L4 Dutiful Loyalist's-- inability to tolerate ambiguity. It all becomes absolutely 'existential'--a fending off of the ' nausea' of facing the ultimate absurdity of our world. Anyway I definitely agree that Soral is beta but am hoping for more input from others before I post about which type for various reasons I'll explain then.
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Post by Roshan on Oct 15, 2020 9:36:28 GMT -5
What they have is a massive problem with their own Geworfenheit. (And the cream in the coffee, the cherry on top, the matzoh ball in the soup, is in the article--Overview, Paragraph 3--wiki points to Morrison being the Six he was).
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Post by vincent on Oct 15, 2020 11:25:48 GMT -5
What do you mean by "rational" in that context ?
(I've seen the word used to refer to NT and ST types, but never for NF ones)
I've seen the functions be divided into into rational/irrational. Rational being the judging functions and irrational being the perceiving functions. In this case Beta rational = beta J-lead
Oh right, i had completely forgotten about this (pretty ugly) socionics dichotomy.
Irrational = xxxP Rational = xxxJ
Thanks for the clarification.
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Post by vincent on Oct 15, 2020 11:40:13 GMT -5
Yes, i completely agree with this.
When Soral say "they" or "the international community" he is refering to the Jews in veiled terms, and he is talking to people who know and understand that code. Those are "winks" to the already convinced. Which is probably important to "slot" his Fe.
Another obvious consequence is that, whatever he is, there will be some degree of shadowing at play.
Come on, we narrowed it down to only 4 possible types !
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adrian
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Post by adrian on Oct 15, 2020 12:01:20 GMT -5
At first I didn’t get the reference that he was referring to the Jews but it’s obvious once the code has been cracked.
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Post by Roshan on Oct 15, 2020 13:07:47 GMT -5
Well, adrian , let's just say I have considerable experience in this code with a "cracker".
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Post by Roshan on Oct 18, 2020 22:42:15 GMT -5
Anyhoo, this guy is just too similar in his formulations to TPAS for me to not see him as SeTi, and in any case, being Fe PolR I just don't get Fe from him the way I would with my supervisor. His affect is too flat for Fe dom imo. SeTi with its absolute value Fe can seem very approachable if the Se isn't so much on the predator side.
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Post by Roshan on Oct 19, 2020 8:44:55 GMT -5
Se in shadow mode is pedantic.
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Post by Roshan on Oct 19, 2020 9:43:42 GMT -5
Compare him to Robert Barnes, the attorney who defended the Covington kids, who is definitely SeTi and what I would call a progressive Republican. Here he is with his NeTi 'business partner' Viva doing their public service twice weekly legal analysis show (Viva btw is what healthy NeTi is like). Barnes is a powerhouse (and also an 8) but see how open and affable he is, and yet doesn't have the emotional fluidity of Fe frame, the more direct connection to the heart center in E. Also SeTi can be very intellectual; this guy's IQ has to be off the charts, his memory is prodigious, he never ceases to amaze me. Obviously the analytical bent of SeTi has to do with the Ti instrumental. But imagine if Barnes were unhealthy. Then in shadowing, his Si fifth will start pushing out the Se 'riding the waves' and he is going to start overusing Si 'cataloguing', which will start to ossify the perception process and he will become dogmatic. It's kind of like shadow Si melds with the Ti. Then, with that paradoxicality of Si (both rigid and soft) he will seem more adaptable but be more inflexible, unwilling to bend (to new information) with the wind, to 'surf the wind'. More interpersonally accommodating yet less intellectually supple. Ni inferior already has a propensity to Manichaeism because the SeTi ego block can't tolerate the unbounded eternal Idea in manifold fluctuating incarnations, so to say, that is Ni. So it has to tame it and the easiest way to do so is via binaries, which in unhealth become extreme. You can think of it like this SeTi rider is breaking this bronco that is coming out from under him from the dark. Then, since the SeTi role is still Ne and its agenda is still Fe, voilá we have a new "theory of everyone'. Which Barnes doesn't really have, because he's healthy--and so he will speak for and against say the police depending on what happened, often do both at the same time, and will change his view according to new information. But Beast2 and TPAS do have it, in spades: a Manichaean Theory of Everyone. This disposition to Manichaeism btw is why SeTi's can be 'generals'. They're comfortable fighting 'the enemy'. Also, there can be a big similarity between disintegrating Se's use of Ni inferior and the use of Ni of Ne PolR, and this is why, I think, Beast 2's worldview hinges on the same binarization of the collective as Beast 1's. I don't refer to the 'it's the jooz', I refer to the entire underlying process and its need for a formalized Manichaean expression, though with "S" instrumental tool/demo Beast1 TiSe is melodramatic and kitschy, while the in my view SeTi Beast 2, with T instrumental, is pedantic.
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Post by Roshan on Oct 19, 2020 10:30:11 GMT -5
Of course, Barnes is an 8 and there's that and all kinds of other cans of worms to open in what I wrote. Of course not every SeTi disintegrates into a pedant. And so on. But...food for thought, grist for the mill... maybe Soral isn't even SeTi though that was what I thought and vincent did agree, as he'll surely explain. Still, we could be wrong. It's not wrong about TSAP though. He is definitely SeTi and Soral definitely has a LOT in common with him, and both would be happy to have a TiSe Varg lieutenant prancing around in cosplay making inspirational music videos with war games for the troops as long as he completely toed the line of the dogma. As long as he knew his place. (Bearing in mind that 'lieutenant' breaks down etymologically to place holder).
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