anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Aug 30, 2020 20:29:58 GMT -5
I’m going to put things I write and occasional video blogs that I’ve been doing on my own in this thread. I will talk about the E and post things that pertain to it, throughout it.
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Post by Roshan on Aug 31, 2020 20:18:29 GMT -5
How do you know that 'those sorts of things' like love are explained by neurochemicals rather than say that neurochemicals are explained by those sorts of things? * * * Yes, you could not find the solution to the problems in your mind with your mind. Also you could only access Se through developing Si and unignoring Te.* Average to unhealthy 5 omniscience must narrow the perceptual field to dominate it and 9w1 hyperruminates repetitiously; whence the treadmill recycling. It doesn't really matter whether we (I mean us) use this system or we don't. Every time we breathe we also rust. The genii is already out of the bottle; the system is out there. The important thing is whether we feel called to it and whether we can put it down when it does become dangerous. Or simply when something more compelling, of greater value comes along. Yes, it can make you compassionate. It can also do the opposite. Ah...back to biological essentialism. Nope. But of course, please do elaborate.** I suppose I'll be have to force myself to focus to understand them. Which as we know will be hard because I'm an sx 6w7 bimbo. Like Marilyn. I think that when the viriuts end, you'll meet people wandering around and drawing and filming as you were before. *And also we had to fight.
**It seems to me that the more we open to observation there comes a point the less we can perceive per se. For instance if I were perceive everything a human, a bat, a dolphin, a dog and a fly perceive at once I would be flooded. I believe to perceive everything is to perceive nothing. And approaching that the feeling of it would not be explainable by biochemistry because it's all somehow space and charge. One thing that intrigues me is that I don't see this Ground of Being as the One but as the Nine but we'll get to that and anyway that discussion is itself dyadic so....it's amazing about that ten though is it not? 10 computers, yin yang, etc...btw you might take another quick look at Ramana Maharshi anthony
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Sept 1, 2020 6:05:25 GMT -5
Okay, so, both times I referred to biological essentialism, I was referencing the manner in which /some(many)/ computer scientists/AI-researchers that I've came across seem to implicitly define consciousness approximately as "the unfolding of subjectivity from matter and ability to regard that experience as meaningful" in tandem with "human-like self-awareness," but as a matter of possession as opposed to degree. They recognize that the physical constitutions of both humans and computers lie in the periodic table of elements, and that there exists organisms('animals') that have a relationship with their environment, where those organisms generate responses to environmental circumstances out of a given type of motivation(ex:'emotional').
'These sorts of things' like the experience of what one might refer to as 'love' or even 'lower-order' emotions(like anger) can be tracked, not 'explained'(that was a poor word choice), via neurochemical processes. If I were to jam a knife through my brain in the right place and twist it, managing to survive the ordeal, I'd be saying bye to my experience of love. A lot of these researchers seem to hold strong to the idea that a machine could process and experience 'these sorts of things' in the way that the members of kingdom-animalia do, and that only then could they regard those machines as conscious.
However, it seems self-evident that these things like love, in the way that animals(including us), might experience them, is specific to us. Matter imposes a set of circumstances upon us that, due to our physical parts, allows us to be able to recognize and feel things like 'love,' and ALSO to regard something like love as 'meaningful,' which we only do because we eventually die - we effectively exist as temporary cosmic computers in this respect, as our entire biology was borne of the cosmos.
Yes, love exists as a form which precedes us, if we didn't exist it'd still be there. But humans are made of matter, and that matter is the medium through which the form of love can be reflected through. Love is ineffable, as is every form in the intellect, but it is OUR physical constitution which allows for that reflection, our experience. In order to create a machine that can experience the form of love in the way that we do, you'd effectively have to 'build' a human, out of human parts. That's not to say that it CAN'T be done out of other parts, after all it hasn't been done yet, and what do we know?
But that experience does mean that we possess consciousness and that a machine doesn't, rather, from our perspective, those experiences which we regard as the result of our consciousness are just different. We do the same things that plants, rocks, and machines do, we exist in the same hypostasis, we're made up of the same stuff, and we recognize/react/respond to our material environment in our own ways - just with differences in biological complexity, WHICH forms from the intellect we reflect, and the appearance of action or experience. Everything else in our material world is conscious in the same essential way that we regard ourselves as conscious, as matter itself is a contemplative medium through which the forms shine through, forming the reality that we(and the rocks and machines) recognize around us.
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Sept 1, 2020 6:52:28 GMT -5
"Yes, you could not find the solution to the problems in your mind with your mind." You've told me this many times in the past. I didn't understand what you meant, and wouldn't have even if you explained it to me(and you did). I'm sure this 'revelation' of mine was probably a big 'eye-roll' for you to hear, because it was you who worked the idea into my head from the start anyways. I began to understand it when I started using my eyes(literally) and hardening my body - which even includes doing things like speaking through the gut and breathing deeply instead of holding my breath and rigidly clenching(not my sphincter). "Average to unhealthy 5 omniscience must narrow the perceptual field to dominate it and 9w1 hyperruminates repetitiously; whence the treadmill recycling." This is...more than difficult to escape, because you don't know if you're even REALLY doing that until you ask yourself if you are, and who says you have enough self-understanding to reveal that to yourself anyways? Well, you'll know when you start to question whether or not you're making yourself go insane, because what do you know about anything and what do you know about your ability to even know in the first place, and what do you know about your ability to know that you have the ability to know, and how do you even know about that? And who says that what you're thinking right now is actually what you're thinking, and that your thoughts are even grounded in reality? How do you know your reality is the same as reality and that reality is even reality as you understand it? - to infinity and with everything. It wasn't JUST body dysphoria. It stops when you realize that those thoughts are pointless, because you're stupidly missing the point of WHY you're going through that line of thought in the first place. Then you say, "okay, well if this is all pointless, let me look for the point" - so you start to use your eyes, and then you realize you're in physical space, so your body and its strength/stability/health becomes relevant. Thus, you make it stronger, and take care of it. You continue to use your eyes. Things begin to seem less daunting and you begin to feel more normal, sane. You can breathe, and when you breathe deeply, things don't have the gravity that you thought they did. They're still important, but they're also quite hysterical, and you're more resilient than you thought. There's no way I'm above Level 5 health, I'm probably right there, as it stands right now. I was much lower in health than I had realized over the past...longer than 2-3 years, for sure. Actually emerging into what seems to be and feel like an 'average' state of mental health is something I don't recall feeling, but it's a visceral feeling, and I have more self-certainty and confidence and humility than I probably ever had, ever. Though, I'm sure there are still things I'm 'missing.' "It doesn't really matter whether we (I mean us) use this system or we don't. Every time we breathe we also rust. The genii is already out of the bottle; the system is out there. The important thing is whether we feel called to it and whether we can put it down when it does become dangerous. Or simply when something more compelling, of greater value comes along. Yes, it can make you compassionate. It can also do the opposite." The system tends to get dangerous, imo, when it leads people to the conclusion that they can manipulate themselves via their enneagrammatic knowledge in order to fit a 'mold' of something that they desire to be or have. It can lead you to the delusion that things you wouldn't have otherwise cared about are important, and that you can change them. It can also lead you to think about how you think too much. We've both seen people adopt...'traits' they hadn't had previously, after typing as something new - you can see it in their facebook photos, but of course they are not going to admit this to themselves. I did that too. I lost touch with myself in the process of becoming more mentally unhealthy and had, at various times, used my knowledge of the system in an attempt to 'rediscover' a sense of INTERNAL CONSISTENCY. I don't feel like I have to do that anymore, nor would I want to, because I'd feel my actions so viscerally/strongly that I'd gross myself out anyways. Also, and it's probably an indicator of higher(average) health, I feel as though I 'get me' and actually have that internal consistency I wanted so badly. "I think that when the virus ends, you'll meet people wandering around and drawing and filming as you were before." "When" huh?
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Post by Roshan on Sept 1, 2020 8:52:36 GMT -5
I'm sure this 'revelation' of mine was probably a big 'eye-roll' for you to hear No, not at all. It was very gratifying and I was very pleased.I...used my knowledge of the system in an attempt to 'rediscover' a sense of INTERNAL CONSISTENCY....I feel as though I 'get me' and actually have that internal consistency I wanted so badly. Well, again, that consistency can't lie in the head center. It can't lie in any center. It can only lie in balancing all the centers--and with them the cognitive functions. And it isn't really internal either. It involves an acceptance that the "I/Thou" relationship isn't just 'dyadic'. We not only are what we eat, we are also what eats us, so to say. What eats us are the extroverted functions, but especially Se...to be in the flow of the sense perceptible world."I think that when the virus ends, you'll meet people wandering around and drawing and filming as you were before." "When" huh? Well not for nothing I called it 'the viriuts'. Of course you can dive into the riots too but I wouldn't recommend it (Chicago being one of the epicenters). tbcd
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Post by Roshan on Sept 1, 2020 14:18:34 GMT -5
" They recognize that the physical constitutions of both humans and computers lie in the periodic table of elements" Okay, the physical constituents. But what about the 'mental' constituents of the computer? Is it true that it's all based on 01? Is there some correlation there with how the atoms of at least the simplest elements are configured?
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Sept 2, 2020 1:29:31 GMT -5
" They recognize that the physical constitutions of both humans and computers lie in the periodic table of elements" Okay, the physical constituents. But what about the 'mental' constituents of the computer? Is it true that it's all based on 01? Is there some correlation there with how the atoms of at least the simplest elements are configured? A correlation between what and what? Between the 'mental' constituents of a computer versus those of an animal/human?
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Post by Roshan on Sept 2, 2020 12:05:11 GMT -5
A correlation between what and what? Between the 'mental' constituents of a computer versus those of an animal/human? No, between the boiled down structures/building blocks/charges of the atoms that embody the elements and the basic mental constituents of the computer, which I asked if it was true that they're 10, meaning 1 and 0, or base 2, the dyadic.
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Post by vincent on Sept 2, 2020 15:18:05 GMT -5
Glad to hear (and see) that you're doing better @anthony
Also, very interesting discussion about consciousness. I will try to catch up and sneak in when i get the chance.
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Sept 2, 2020 16:29:15 GMT -5
A correlation between what and what? Between the 'mental' constituents of a computer versus those of an animal/human? No, between the boiled down structures/building blocks/charges of the atoms that embody the elements and the basic mental constituents of the computer, which I asked if it was true that they're 10, meaning 1 and 0, or base 2, the dyadic. There is no correlation between the elemental structure of the computer and it’s logic(binary/01s). Binary logic is the simplest way for a computer to make decisions at the most fundamental level, as if telling the computer something, and it responds to itself with “yes” or “no.” However, there are already quantum computers that exist, whereby that division between 0 and 1 isn’t a clear division, but a spectrum, where the computer is built to exist between 0 and 1 until told otherwise.
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Sept 9, 2020 2:14:34 GMT -5
Back like a year before my active involvement Enneatude when I was a 9w8-6w5-3w2 or something. Taylah participated too but she was too shy to get on camera. I remember I made this video in response to the “big issue” of people who were “obviously” counterphobic 6s typing themselves as 8. For whatever reason at the time, 8 seemed to be the type that everybody wanted to be, not 4 or 5 or 6. In tandem with this around that time I also wrote a “criticism” about the Fauvres’ Tritype research. docs.google.com/document/d/1ETkjjioq23M6okT1KTDNMDERSe7e9krPeifjIhven60/edit
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Post by Roshan on Sept 9, 2020 19:12:34 GMT -5
So this guy has no faults. 3 L6 narcissistic self-promotion, meaning his 8 is L6 Confrontational Adversary. And he only gets into confrontations as a 'commitment'. Gee I wonder what his head fix is. He's obviously sp/so and he's so tense he can barely breathe...I'm tempted to say the 6 leads but he seems a bit too thick-headed. Of course it isn't impossible but still... There, I feel better now.
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Post by Roshan on Sept 9, 2020 20:02:39 GMT -5
anthony I actually had a boss who was L6 873 and boy did he love to fight! Where's the one on Fauxfourves?
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Sept 9, 2020 20:28:53 GMT -5
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Sept 9, 2020 20:31:13 GMT -5
So this guy has no faults. 3 L6 narcissistic self-promotion, meaning his 8 is L6 Confrontational Adversary. And he only gets into confrontations as a 'commitment'. Gee I wonder what his head fix is. He's obviously sp/so and he's so tense he can barely breathe...I'm tempted to say the 6 leads but he seems a bit too thick-headed. Of course it isn't impossible but still... There, I feel better now. Ahahaha. Iirc NOW he does think he's 6 fixed but he changed his stacking to Sx/So, and after explaining to him why that wasn't the case he dismissed me. I don't think the 6 leads, I think the 8 leads by a nose and it's 8w9(7w8) but with a big 6w7 second and probably 3w4(2w3) last. Robin...IF ONLY I had that sort of 'so this guy has no faults, eh?' sort of attitude at the time...
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