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Post by Roshan on Mar 28, 2020 17:18:22 GMT -5
It may not be the best time to distinguish between Ti and Te vincent. I'm happy if I can just get a sense of Ne and authority and authorship for now.
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Post by vincent on Mar 28, 2020 17:59:11 GMT -5
When i said "it's all about words", i was talking specifically about Ne 6th power moves. I'm sure he actually has a lot of more to offer, including Ni insights and Ti theories, but i was working on the wrong hypothesis that he fraudulently insisted on fathering words. Which i thought it was a sign of absolute value (and shadow) Ne.
Showing both Si polr (because of the wrongness of the claim) and Ti ignoring, because the currency he is offering us and which supposed to be enough in itself to demonstrate his importance in the field was a word rather than, say, a theoretical breakthrough.
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Post by vincent on Mar 28, 2020 18:05:47 GMT -5
You're saying Te has to do with the naming of things and Ti doesn't, right?
Not really. I guess naming things is a N-S axis thing rather than a T-F axis one.
My point was that Ne 6th has a tendency to value words above Si facts and Ti theories.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 31, 2020 1:06:22 GMT -5
Sam really blossoms as a harbinger of doom. It suits him.
He appears to be sp/sx 7w8(8w7)-3w4(4w5)-1w2(X). This is tantamount to having a social 1w2 fix on an 8 core.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 31, 2020 1:51:16 GMT -5
In fact this is truly the perfect configuration for a confessional sociopathic narcissist to grace us with his TeNi creative subtype insights. Seven and Three together is the combination with the most narcissistic tendencies, Eight and sp/sx rev up the sociopathy, and the 4 and 1 components provide the depth and the detail.
If Sam were an actual 8 he would have to have a 5w6 fix to still be anything like Sam (since 837 is too action-oriented) and the 835 Sam would not wish to divulge so much.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 31, 2020 11:45:29 GMT -5
So. In response to being asked how he found out he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder, he says that three times he 'hit rock bottom' and 'was diagnosed by a qualified mental health practitioner' with NPD. The third time he felt he "had to find out what this is and began to search for information" but "was flabbergasted to discover there was nothing on the topic. Literally nothing". He then immediately goes on to mention Lowen's and Kohut's books. Can we get it straight that for him 'literally' should literally mean 'literally", due to his age and his speaking as an 'expert' about 'experts'. First having clarified that NPD only became a diagnosis in the DSM in 1980, which is "very recent, in scholarly terms" to explicate the paucity of sources in the 90s, he dismisses Lowen's book for being 'a popular colloquial discourse' but Kohut's for being 'totally inaccessible, arcane language, no one understood anything, hopefully the author did because presumably no one else did, the guy was Kohut, he was a very famous psychologist and so on". So there was 'no help' and he "had literally to invent the language' with the goal of understanding himself through 'introspection', while having no aspirations to become an 'authority'. "This language later became widely accepted and now it's part of the scholarly discourse but at the time I had to invent it". I'm looking at p. 30 of the eighth revised impression of Malignant Self-Love: Narcissism Revisited, copyright 1999 to 2007. www.slideshare.net/samvaknin/malignant-self-love-narcissism-revisited-excerptsThis p. 30 is actually the first page of the main body of the book but it follows a long, dense intro by Vaknin himself--and a forward by someone else that's more important overall perhaps since it' jabs at you viscerally in first person about how narcissists just lie for the hell of it. Be that as it may. Vaknin's p. 30/1 mentions Freud and eight other 'major contributors to the study of narcissism'. Two, Klein and Horney, are about one floor and a mezzanine below Freud as legend. Another is Kohut, whom Vaknin mentioned to disparage in the 2014 video. Four of the other five all published their books between 1970 and 1995, so well before Vaknin, at the end of his Grail quest, created his out of 'literally nothing'. The fifth is Elsa Ronningstam (btw that's the correct spelling), whose first book of many on the subject, Disorders of Narcissism: Diagnostic, Clinical, and Empirical Implications, only came out in 1998. But the thing is she's the editor of that book. It's a compendium of works by many experts. Now if the extended copyright of Malignant Self-Love were after the 2014 video, we could at least conjecture that Vaknin was correcting himself after backlash to the video. But it's not. He seems to have made his outrageous statements in that video just because he could. What lies underneath that impulse may be in the Forward. It is and isn't 'literally nothing'.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 31, 2020 11:59:46 GMT -5
Also, p.30/1 is titled "A Primer On Narcissism and the Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD)" and indeed, Vaknin has portrayed himself and been seen as providing a kind of 'how to' to cope with narcissists. This aligns with Tritype 137 Design for Living. Also in a way, Vaknin is his own Gerald Bostock and his whole enterprise has parallels to fellow sp/sx 7w8-3w4-1w2 Ian Anderson (Jethro Tull)'s "Thick as a Brick". He is designing a 'life story' but in Vaknin's case it just happens to also be his own and you can participate in it as art or as life. With Anderson the distinction was likewise not as clear as you might think, even less with TAAB2. How interesting. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thick_as_a_Brick
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Post by Roshan on Apr 4, 2020 11:46:48 GMT -5
Ooookay, I found (quite by accident) an account of Sam's childhood by him that talks about events he claims happened. I alluded to them in the OP. This also led me to his poems, the existence of which I was dimly aware (just keep clicking the back arrow for 'more of Sam Vaknin's pieces'. They're really very good. (Assuming too much isn't plagiarized... ) Edit: here's the table of contents for his stuff on that site. www.unlikelystories.org/old/vaknin.htmlThe name of the website, 'unlikelystories.org' is...yanno...a coincidence, just one of those things... www.unlikelystories.org/old/abuse.html
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Post by Roshan on Apr 4, 2020 12:11:09 GMT -5
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Apr 5, 2020 1:58:51 GMT -5
Reading this is leading me to consider whether the 4/2/8 line perhaps has a higher tendency of age-regression in disintegration...
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Post by Roshan on Apr 5, 2020 4:42:51 GMT -5
What do you mean by the 4/2/8 line, anthony?
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Apr 5, 2020 5:26:48 GMT -5
The line that connects from 4 to 2, then 2 to 8.
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Post by Roshan on Apr 5, 2020 5:40:09 GMT -5
How are you relating this to Sam Vaknin and his writings?
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Post by Roshan on Apr 5, 2020 5:45:00 GMT -5
Vaknin's website. Haven't seen it in ages. Interesting that he hasn't upgraded it. He updates but hasn't upgraded at all. I assume he's making some point by not doing so. I'll link to the page of his articles titled "World in Conflict and Economies in Transition" for a change of pace. samvak.tripod.com/guide.html
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Post by Roshan on Apr 5, 2020 5:58:09 GMT -5
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