|
|
Post by Roshan on Mar 13, 2021 19:47:43 GMT -5
It's funny, he doesn't seem rigid to me. He seems more like 'a deer in the headlights' and stuck in uncomfortable clothes.
|
|
adrian
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 222
Enneagram Core Fix: 2w1
|
Post by adrian on Mar 13, 2021 21:00:11 GMT -5
I was the one who voted for FiSe. However, even before Vincent posted the new photos, I was thinking of changing my vote to either SiTe or NiTe. I decided not to because I wanted to see if the initial FiSe impression stuck with more photos. What immediately struck me in both the initial set of photos and the older ones is that he definitely seems like an introverted Fi/Te user (so either gamma introvert or delta introvert). Another plausible type is Ti frame. I do lean towards either SiTe or NiTe. Notice out of the introverted types, I left out SiFe and NiFe. On a gut level, it just seems to me that Fe is not metabolized with this tyke, or if he is either of those types, he would be a jumper.
Do you see NiTe and SiTe as equally likely ? No slight preference for one over the other ?
When I first settled on SiTe or NiTe, I didn’t have a preference over one or the other yet. Looking at his photos again, he does look dreamy, wistful, and pensive. Deer in the headlights to quote Roshan. With the addition of the last pic, perhaps FiNe? NiFe? He does seem high Fi whether that be frame, 6th, or 3rd (jumper). He’s so expressive but his expressions are also deliberative, as if he’s reacting to his own internal reactions, calibrating how he feels. He’s aware of the camera but his interiority and the atmosphere around it takes precedence over anything else. This could be said of any introverted function but his facial expressions betrays a more involved relationship with his internal feeling tones and the atmosphere that they affect on him. I guess with Fi, it can be aware of the camera and the performativity surrounding it all, but reflexively rejects that for something more authentic (“this is how I feel and I can’t help but express it” sorta thing). But since Fi is on a spectrum with Fe, the authenticity can become a performance in itself for others to witness and experience even if it’s subtle and unconscious. |
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on Mar 13, 2021 21:46:08 GMT -5
But he seems too...emotionally flat too often to have Fi for frame. While too hazy for strong Te. And to me he seems Si > Se by far. Is SiFi possible? He seems kind of 'reluctant delta'...
|
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 5:50:56 GMT -5
Well, before the last picture I figured, based on what sounded like glee almost to point of schadenfreude over our all assuming he was low Fe and not delta beta, that he must be high Fe and beta.
Oh no, maybe there was some glee or even schadenfreude in my post. But not about our voters assumptions about his Fe or his quadra.
The thing is none of you voted for the type that is almost universally (and imo, wrongly) ascribed to him online.
I have to go for now, but i'll do the reveal later today.
|
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 13:29:06 GMT -5
So... time for the reveal !
Who is typed everywhere as FiNe.
And has been used in some circles as a paradigmatic example of the "INFP fantasy writer".
And then used to (mis)type lot of people who were only guilty of writing fantasy fiction. (JKRowling, Terry Pratchett, George R.R. Martin, etc).
For quite some time i thought he was SiFe, or possibly SiTi, an alpha storyteller and dreamtimer.
I went to look closer at him after i reread a post from Roshan in the philosopher's thread. Which makes me realize that "Delta with a bad case of Alphastolgia" might actually work better than alpha for Tolkien.
And then i realized that he was a very interesting typing in his own right, and not an easy one, so he became a tyke. 
|
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 13:35:05 GMT -5
But he seems too...emotionally flat too often to have Fi for frame. While too hazy for strong Te. And to me he seems Si > Se by far. Is SiFi possible? He seems kind of 'reluctant delta'...
Yes i think SiFi is right.
VERY reluctant delta, with a massive massive case of Alphastolgia.
Too rustic to be comfortable in the very urbane clothes of his quadra, but not nearly wild enough for alpha.
|
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 13:39:47 GMT -5
ahmed please hold on and bear with us just a bit longer. The reveal is coming soon ! I hope i got the type right.. or at least close
I'm curious ahmed , when you said "at least close" here, were you thinking about SiFi ? (since you "voted" SiTe in pm). |
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 13:51:11 GMT -5
And in the second picture his expression is similar to yours vincent . But he never quite seems 'sharp' in the way I would expect in at least one Ni dom picture. tbh I didn't really think he looked that high Te when I voted NiTe for the first photo; he just has an expression similar to mine in many photos as a kid, but I am a big jumper so...He seems so dreamy. In the third photo he seems somewhat FiNe-sh (to me) but too...sort of cool for that in the second and fourth. Still thinking...
I can definitely see some similarity between his expression and yours as a kid, and occasionnally with mine too.
And i also agree Ni dom never seems quite right in any of those pictures.
I suspect part of the similarity comes from the jumper configuration and from whatever is going on with his fourth row.
Which i suspect is not just strong Ni role, but might also be a Ne pipeline or something pretty close to that.
|
|
ahmed
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 166
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
|
Post by ahmed on Mar 14, 2021 13:54:08 GMT -5
I'm curious ahmed , when you said "at least close" here, were you thinking about SiFi ? I was sure about Pi lead & Te/Fi with Fi agenda. Te is usually harder for me to spot when it isn't screaming at my face so it was more about Fi agenda & Ti demo. I listened to an interview too, and made me lean more SiTe over Ni lead. (Also with socionics correlations, LII as one of his most likely types fits better with SiTe) I haven't fully integrated the two subtypes while typing, so SiFi still counts for me as a win  |
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 14:00:06 GMT -5
I originally voted TiNe, but NiTe looks more accurate now. He seems especially Fi 'absorbed' in the photo with the mustache (ridged too, but that could just be how he's expected to pose), and his gaze overall seems to fade out to suggest N above S. I suppose, assuming he's an introvert, FiNe's an option, but I see Ni>Ne (I think he's too stoic for Si 'warmth', but he's not 'blank' enough for Ti void, unless I'm wrong and really underestimating role function).
I think the fading out of his gaze suggests Pi lead over anything else.
Not necessarily N above S.
It's something you will see not only in Ni dom, but also in withdrawn Si dom, providing they are not too "busy" with their auxiliary function.
|
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 14:13:28 GMT -5
I was sure about Pi lead & Te/Fi with Fi agenda. Te is usually harder for me to spot when it isn't screaming at my face so it was more about Fi agenda & Ti demo. I listened to an interview too, and made me lean more SiTe over Ni lead. (Also with socionics correlations, LII as one of his most likely types fits better with SiTe) I haven't fully integrated the two subtypes while typing, so SiFi still counts for me as a win
Well, yeah, but he isn't your regular SiTe.
I mean, you could certainly see some similarity between him and Bauman or between him and HeideggerBut they are both a lot more obvious (and stronger Te) than he is.
In some pictures, especially older ones, Tolkien seems actually closer to Alan Bloom (who is SiFe) than to them. |
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 14:31:42 GMT -5
Speaking of interviews :
One thing that strikes me is his speech style.
He talks extremely fast, yet in a very accentuated way, to the point of eating his words and being barely intelligible sometimes.
Among our typees, the only one that come somewhat close to that, i think, is Camille Paglia
Outside of our typpes, the rythm and energy of his speech reminds me an awful LOT of the only SiFi i know in real life and am positive about.
whose lectures were both extremely brilliant and extremely draining, physically and mentally. and who was another very reluctant delta, and, interestingly enough, a specialist of the "origin story" of delta quadra philosophy. (the Social Pact in Locke, Hobbes and Rousseau... which bring us back to Roshan 's post in the philosopher's thread)
tbcd.
|
|
|
|
Post by vincent on Mar 14, 2021 14:53:35 GMT -5
Also... SeTi shadow actually makes a lot of sense for someone who created a Viking Club in his "wild" youth.
|
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on Mar 14, 2021 18:11:00 GMT -5
This picture is on his wiki article. There was something about the combination of the adult photos above where he seemed to be in a haze that was Te PolR and Se ignoring--or, less likely, vice versa-- EXCEPT I could see him leading the cavalry up the hill, brandishing his sword shouting "Chaaarge!" (if he had to lead the calvary up the hill) and then receiving knighthood from her Majesty. This photo captures that aspect of him. Based on the oldest photo alone, I would have typed him SiFe--which I was considering toward the end when I was settling on Si frame--hands down. But this one, no. Also, I had settled on either Alpha or Delta midstream, but by the end I was really leaning very strongly to Delta.  |
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on Mar 14, 2021 18:32:37 GMT -5
I don't really understand, though, why people were seeing Te and/or Fi so strongly and I wonder if they could articulate that. It wasn't apparent to me. Only the first photo seemed very clearly Fi>Fe and as I said, I started leaning to Te PolR. What was apparent was that he was a double introvert, meaning a jumper, so the manifestation of the functions was going to be pretty mucked up.
|
|
