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Post by vincent on Feb 10, 2020 14:43:10 GMT -5
Yes vincent , he based it on young Hillary. He says so in the link above, and that years of politics changed her. This is the only footage available when very young, or when young at all and not like an Ice Queen He agrees on Te/Fi second and third so I assume he felt the obvious N in this speech was Ni and that it leads, and also, and probably more importantly to him, he saw 'vultological quailias' for Ni.
Right. That makes sense.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 12, 2020 1:24:31 GMT -5
I remembered Ben Shapiro was typed on Auburn's site as TeNi, which I agree with, and I watched him and thought he is similar to Paglia in a lot of ways. Then I went to his samples and I thought the physicist Max Tegmark is like a sedated version of her--or rather she's him on amphetamines (though Auburn denies him Ni development for what reason I know not). I couldn't help thinking her wild eyed look and discombobulated whole body gestures are way too similar to mine when I get going. Are you sure that can be Si frame? I was thinking is she TeNi after all and the Si polr manifests in some other way, that her historicity (which is after all a bit 'brutalist') isn't the issue here. Like I said she cherry-picks, she 'uses' it, it's pretty broad strokes. Then I noticed he also has her as TeNi. cognitivetype.com/forums/topic/teni-definitive-vultology/
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Post by Roshan on Feb 12, 2020 3:05:20 GMT -5
She says in this video that she studied the rise and fall of ancient civilizations since she was a child. Does that disqualify Si polr? I've never heard her talk about history in the meticulous granular way that I associate with Si.
That said, she does have a rather stodgy quality to her as she ages, which Auburn seems to attribute to lack of affect due to her having emerged from the darkness unto the light.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 12, 2020 3:29:37 GMT -5
But when seated she still has the hand gestures that seem to be identical to the TeNi's in the 'definitive vultology' (and somewhat to me).
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Post by Roshan on Feb 12, 2020 3:32:05 GMT -5
There is still an awful lot of pointing.
Is pointing a thing with SiTe?
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Post by vincent on Feb 12, 2020 6:28:43 GMT -5
I'll watch those videos and look into Shapiro and Tegmark. An interest in history in itself does not disqualify Si polr. Si and Ni both have something to do with time and history, so it could be "just Ni". Including Ni auxiliary with counterphobic Si polr. That being said, FeNi and Teni interest for history tends to be very abstract, metaphysical or mystical. It's usually all about the archetypal meaning of history, the "sense of history". Their history often reads like a philosophical tales where all the episodic details have been pushed away or discarded to only retain the depth. And they often do that with very little categorizing, hierarchizing or compartementalizing. Think about Peterson exegesis of Disney movies for example. And with Se (Heraclitean flow) as an agenda, TeNi often seems to be "riding the Zeitgeist" in some way, rather than upholding a tradition.
At this point, i don't think that this is what's happening with her. She seems too categorical, too narrowly focused, too dry and "vegetative", too "wooden" for Ni aux/Si polr. Her brush and strokes are certainly broader and less granular than they tend to be with lot of ISTJ historians. She certainly isn't Dumezil, for example, but to be fair she isn't an historian, more like a cultural critic.
A painter of history, in a way, somewhere on the impressionistic/expressionistic spectrum. Anyway, i need to read and watch more about her to be sure. to be continued.
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Post by vincent on Feb 12, 2020 7:33:23 GMT -5
She really seems to have the kind of iconodule/iconoclast ambivalence that is often seen in Si dom/Ni 8th people. In most of the few texts i read, she was literally playing some kind of "icons against icons" chess game, very selectively, with lots of name dropping and lots of typically Si labeling and categorizing. This "Granmpa vs Daddy" thing really doesn't sound like Si polr.
But still, tbcd
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Post by Roshan on Feb 12, 2020 10:47:54 GMT -5
vincent you can watch this one so we have a common reference for Shapiro. (don't worry, I've just been listening to it in the background as I clean )
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Post by vincent on Feb 13, 2020 12:30:12 GMT -5
There is still an awful lot of pointing. Is pointing a thing with SiTe?
The pointing is related to Te in general, i believe.
"Yang" Te so to speak.
It seems to be more obvious and more frequent in Te doms.
CSJoseph (ESTJ) transcends it by using a fucking Harry Potter wand to point during his one-man shows !
Happens with Te auxiliary too, but less often and in specific circumstances.
You can even see it when Te 6th people weaponize sometimes.
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Post by vincent on Feb 13, 2020 12:38:26 GMT -5
But when seated she still has the hand gestures that seem to be identical to the TeNi's in the 'definitive vultology' (and somewhat to me).
Well, i'm pretty positive he IS TeNi.
And even if there is some degree of similarity between them, i'm also pretty sure they aren't the same type.
Ni (and intuitiveness in general) is very obvious in Peterson. I don't think it is in Paglia.
Not in the same way at least.
the thumbnail image of this video almost scream "Se vs Si" (body posture, (dis)embodiment, energetic signature).
I also find it quite interesting, and probably typologically significant, that Peterson seems very "careful" here.
Compared to what i've seen from him interacting with other people. I don't find it unlikely at all that we are looking at a supervisor/supervisee exchange here.
Also, some rather large degree of superficiall similarity with you has to be expected since ISTJ and INTJ have the same middle axis. If anything, it's a hint that she could be a SiFi jumper and/or a heavy Si-Fi looper.
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Post by vincent on Feb 13, 2020 13:51:06 GMT -5
This video is very interesting because it gives us an idea of her internal process.
The dynamic itself sounds like a LOT of introverted perceiving and conceiving.
But it doesn't really sound like a Ni blackhole.
Interestingly enough, she DOES compare her process to painting with brushes.
She apparently do a lot of referencing, sampling, and structural planning, which doesn't seem to be compatible with Si polr (nor with Ti ignoring for that matter)
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