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Post by vincent on Jan 6, 2021 14:35:31 GMT -5
In this thread, i'm going to explain and justify the names/labels we use for cognitive function slots.
Those names aren't perfect, and i very much doubt any name could perfectly capture the full essence of the 8 slots of the dynamic matrix of type.
Anyway, here is the list of names (and alternate names) we currently use the most : 1st slot : Frame
2nd slot : Auxiliary/Tool
3rd slot : Agenda 4th slot : seeking/inferior 5th slot : (un)ignoring 6th slot : demonstrative/weaponized/shadow agenda
7th slot : PolR, vulnerable 8th slot : role
In "map" form, that gives :
Frame | Auxiliary | Agenda | Seeking | (un)ignoring | Demonstrative | PolR | Role |
As you can certainly see, some of those names comefrom socionics models, either "as is" or with a twist. It's not that we explicitly and specifically wanted to preserve socionics names. It's just that those names were, for the most part, good enough for typing purpose, and didn't need to be "fixed".
The important point here is that they "fit" the way the slots will actually manifest themselves to the eyes of the observer.
As i will try to show, slot by slot, in my next posts.
It doesn't mean that Beebe's names are intrinsically wrong either.
But Beebe's names tell a whole story, the Hero Journey, that isn't of much use for typing purpose. They might be, however, more useful to understand your own type, and understand how slots manifests in yourself.
For reference, Beebe's name in map format :
Hero/Heroine | Parent
| Eternal Child
| Anima/Animus
| Opposite | Critical Parent
| Trickster
| Demon |
tbcd.
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Post by vincent on Jan 9, 2021 17:19:29 GMT -5
For the 1st slot :
I prefer "frame" to any of the common alternatives (hero, lead, base, dominant, primary) because it conveys the idea of a fundamental, architectonic, but not necessarily visible substratum. And that's exactly how our first function will manifest.
It's pervasive. It's always there. It's always "on" in some way. It's the basis upon which everything else happens in our cognition. But at the same time, and paradoxically, it's not necessarily visible.
To us, this function is so immediately obvious that we are not necessarily conscious of it, the same way we aren't constantly conscious of our own breath.
Strictly speaking, we do not "use" it, we breath it.
To others, our first function will often be tricky to see and detect too. Yes, it's everywhere and it's strong but that's exactly why they might miss it : unless they are themselves primary users of it they won't fully understand what we do with it, or even notice when we use it.
As a result, the first function is rarely the first thing we see when we type people, until it becomes obvious that it's indeed the frame that contains everything else that we did see.
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Post by vincent on Jan 9, 2021 17:33:47 GMT -5
For the 2nd slot :
the main problem is that our chosen name must stay true regardless of the configuration. It must be true for jumpers, who have a subdued and "jumped over" 2nd function It must be true for creative subtypes, who have a very strong and often very obvious 2nd function.
It must be true for the regular type.
And the thing is, regardless of the configuration, the 2nd function is always the strongest of our relative value functions.
As such, it's not an end in itself. It's an instrumental function. A gateway between frame and agenda.
During a typing, what often betrays its place in the stacking is precisely its expediency.
Hence the words "auxiliary" and "tool" to stress that instrumental aspect.
I mostly use "aux" when i'm talking about the function's role in the main process (from frame to agenda) or within the whole stack.
I use "tool" mostly in contrast with "weapon" and "weaponized" (for the 6th slot)..
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Post by vincent on Jan 9, 2021 18:09:13 GMT -5
For the 3rd slot
MBTI term "tertiary" (just like "secondary" for aux) only works for typees who have the decency to belong to the "regular type".
Not so much for jumpers and creative subtypes.
Socionics "hidden agenda" works much better, except most of the time the agenda is actually not so hidden.
It's our second strongest absolute value function.
So we will often end up fighting over it against dominant and auxiliary users AND against people who lack it.
But at the same time, it's not as good, as organic and as pervasive as frame, and it can take some efforts to use it.
So we learn to "pick our fights" with it. We learn to use in a deliberate, specific, delineated, goal oriented way.
Hence the difference with frame and the name agenda.
And even jumpers, who have a very very strong agenda "up there with their frame" will retain this quality.
In any case, most people will be very acutely aware of it and will "show" lot of it.
Which is why it's often one of the first functions you see during a typing process.
Actually, it's so "not so hidden" that mistaking your agenda for your frame is probably one of the most common sources of self-mistype.
(And a ton of self-proclaimed intuitives in the MBTI community are actually Nx agenda people.)
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Post by vincent on Jan 9, 2021 18:09:27 GMT -5
the 4th slot...
is a tricky one.
Its manifestations can vary wildly, from one individual to another, and even within the same indvidual.
It can appear so weak and so "missing" it looks like polr. It can seem deceptively strong too.
It depends on how people deal with its intrinsic weakness. (counterphobia vs phobia. Peacocking vs downplaying, etc)
In any case, people will often be very ambivalent or inconsistent about it. And the energetic impression might change drastically in different settings, because this slot is very "sensitive" to intertype relationships.
The specific quality that will betray this slot is that, while we value it, we don't fully understand it nor master it. So we try to "grasp" it. Our grasping attempts will retain some of it, will hand some of it to others better suited for the task, and will simply miss the rest.
During a typing, sometimes you will see the delegating avoidance first.
Sometimes you will see the glaring mistakes, the gaps, the "missed" aspect of the "inferior" function.
Sometimes you will see the bold peacocking move of "i can handle this myself, thank you very much". But if you look closely enough, right before these moves happen, you should see the seeking, grasping attempt itself.
And then you know it's 4th slot.
Hence the name "seeking". And btw seeking isn't necessarily nor just "dual-seeking".
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Post by vincent on Jan 9, 2021 18:09:44 GMT -5
The 5th slot :
... is probably one of the less understood of all slots overall. And that's the case both in socionics and in MBTI.
The term "Opposing" or "Opposite" is just wrong.
Even within the best attempt to frame type into a hero Journey, 5th wouldn't be "the enemy". We aren't "at war" with it, and we really CAN'T be at war with it, because fields of cognition (N,S,T,F) matter, and in a way matter more than functions themselves. Especially in the first row. An Ni dom, for example, will get Ne just fine, and won't oppose it, because ultimately N is N. You can't reject half of it if it's your frame.
Beebe's "opposite personality" (or "opposite anima") is a bit better, because it evokes the potential of the 5th slot to somehow work as a frame. But it will only be the case in full shadow mode. That's not how that slot will manifest most of the time in most people.
Similarly, most socionics alternate names ("control", "observing", "argumentative") will only be situationally true.
The main characteristic of that slot is that it's both strong and competent AND unvalued (comparatively to frame).
We can handle it just fine, better than most people, but we will still prioritize our frame over it most of the time.
As a result, if we are left to our own device, especially at average health level, we will have tendency to ignore and neglect it.
Sometimes to the point it will appear "blind spot-ish". Absent. Missing.
But that's not the whole story.
That "ignored" slot will still manifest quite often and sometimes quite strongly.
That's why i came to prefer the term (un)ignoring, which reflects better the complexity of the slot.
How this unignoring will manifest will depend a lot on what triggers it.
And similar to 4th, our 5th slot is very sensitive to intertype relationships.
If we are prompted or forced to use it, it will often feel boring. Too easy. Not substantial enough. Why bother ? If we come from strong users and in a more playful way, it will feel often great, fun, in a pretty intoxicating way.
Sometimes, it will manifest from within, without any prompt, but with some kind of delay, some perceptible "latency".
As something we could and should have processed earlier, but simply didn't (because we were "lagging", sitting in our frame)
Healthy people will have a tendency to unignore more often and will manage to use that function more often "a bit late, but right on time".
Think about Lieutenant Columbo coming back to ask the suspect a last question. THE last question
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Post by vincent on Jan 9, 2021 18:09:54 GMT -5
For the 6th slot :
It's probably the most complex of all slots, because of its position in the matrix of type.
It's also the most important to understand your type and actually use typology for growth.
In theory and in a vacuum, if we were always in ego syntonic process, going from frame to agenda through auxiliary, 6th should pretty much never happen.
In practice, we use 6th pretty often.
-when tool isn't enough and we need a weapon instead -when agenda isn't enough or possible, and we retreat into the shadow -when we try to avoid polr by going on the other side of its axis.
Very often, it's the most visible of our shadow functions, and the one that is the most likely to be wrongly slotted in the conscious stack and to cause mistypes.
But more importantly, our 6th function is the term and the end of our ego dystonic processes. Our "shadow agenda".
Which means it basically works as a "barometer" of our health level. The more unhealthy we get, the more we tend to use that slot.
And when we do try to repress it, it will have a tendency to build up over time and explode.
It can indeed work like a "critical parent". And it's often our most reactive, most neurotic, most obsessive and most volatile function.
Most 8 slots systems understand and acknowledge that it is a strong function. But the main thing here is that this is in many ways a TOO strong function, which can produce lots of collateral damage, to ourselves and to others.
One of its most obvious and most constant features, unless people are pretty healthy, is the "overkill" nature of its display.
Hence the name "demonstrative".
Healthy and/or highly integrated people will still use in support and in service of auxiliary and agenda, in a synergetic way. They still demonstrate it, but they don't weaponize it so much.
So... if there was only one thing people should learn, remember and use about typology, that would be "Do not over-6th".
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Post by vincent on Jan 9, 2021 18:10:08 GMT -5
For the 7th slot :
It's our absolute weakest, least valued and least understood function.
It's not entirely wrong to call it "blind", "blindspot" or "oblivious". But it's also pretty misleading.
The thing is, our polr is so bad that we can never afford to be fully blind or oblivious about it.
At least not for long.
it's our most avoided function, but that avoidance is not passive and incidental. It's active avoidance, even when said avoidance isn't conscious.
In a way, we are blind to it the same way bats are blind.
PolR in a way works like the sonar of a bat.
We still navigate the world trying to "echolocate" our way out of polr and trying to not bump into polr walls.
Which of course still happens a lot.
That's why polr people are sometimes the first ones to detect (and sometimes even predict) the worst manifestations of that function in the world.
An effect we sometimes call the "canary in the coal mine" effect.
It's not because we suddenly unblind ourselves and see it.
It's not because we suddenly understand it.
It's because our panicked sonar knows there is something BIG in the room. Which may very well be the proverbial elephant.
Calling it "vulnerable" is a bit better.
It's indeed true that this slot is the cause of many wounds and problems. Which is why, along with 6th, it's the most important slot to understand your type.
But that's because when we "get" that function from the outside, we get raw and whole, without processing it.
But the thing is, that vulnerability is not the result of an heightened sensitivity to it. It's really the result of our lack of resistance against it.
So "path of least resistance", PolR, is indeed the best way to put it.
Especially since, when we type people, it's usually that lack of resistance, and the absence of any processing, that betrays that slot.
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Post by vincent on Jan 14, 2021 16:35:06 GMT -5
For the 8th slot :
The socionic term "adaptative" is another very misleading one.
It is true that we use our 8th slot to adapt to situations where our frame and main processes wouldn't work. But at the same time, our 8th function is also one of the less adaptable of all.
Here is why :
We typically use 8th when :
-our "frame to agenda" process isn't enough
-ignoring is ignored
-seeking isn't found
All in all, it happens a lot, and 8th is usually the most frequently accessed shadow function.
So we got there often but at the same time, we don't want to stay there for long.
We normally try to get back to our main functions as soon as possible. Even in shadow mode, we still won't stay in 8th for too long, we will move to our stronger 6th instead. In that mode, 8th is the first function of our ego-dystonic process. Our "first responder" under stress, but usually not the last.
The consequence of this is that most people develop their 8th in a quite narrow, limited (and often rigid) way, without much mastery, stamina and consistency.
For this reason, 8th users will be prone to overhelm when they are forced out of their comfort zone to brutally or for too long.
Some people will specialize in one aspect of the function, and neglect others. Other people will develop and use their 8th in a more 'scattered' way. In both cases, 8th will not cover the full spectrum of the function.
As a result, something will be "off" to the eyes of "true" users of the function.
That being said. 8th is still an absolute value slot. it really does matter for us and we usually feel a duty to "get it right". To the point that lots of people actually get jobs and careers that heavily involve their 8th.
The paradox of 8th is that we "lack" lot of it, and we are very aware that we lack some it. But we also know that the Socion and the World lacks it even more, and we make it our role to preserve what is truly essential in that function.
And if you want to know what is truly essential about a function, do not ask dominants, or even agenda users.
Ask healthy role users. They will often know that better than anyone else.
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Post by vincent on Jan 17, 2021 6:23:43 GMT -5
With the reorganization of the forum, this thread has been moved to Foundation.
As per the section description, comments and questions have been moved here and the discussion should continue there.
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Post by vincent on Jan 27, 2021 14:35:38 GMT -5
Just added the 6th slot post.
Stay tuned for the remaining two.
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Post by vincent on Jan 30, 2021 14:45:17 GMT -5
Just added the 7th slot.
Stay tuned for the last one !
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Post by vincent on Feb 1, 2021 11:57:12 GMT -5
Just added the 8th slot post.
In the hopefully not-too-distant future, i will try to add some examplar links to illustrate some of those points. And i'll try to make some panoptic table with the main characteristics of each slot, along with "can look like.." and "what to look for".
Anyway, feel free to comment and/or ask questions !
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Post by Roshan on Feb 16, 2021 0:26:23 GMT -5
For the 8th slot :
The socionic term "adaptative" is another very misleading one.
It is true that we use our 8th slot to adapt to situations where our frame and main processes wouldn't work. But at the same time, our 8th function is also one of the less adaptable of all.
Here is why :
We typically use 8th when :
-our "frame to agenda" process isn't enough
-ignoring is ignored
-seeking isn't found
All in all, it happens a lot, and 8th is usually the most frequently accessed shadow function.
More so than sixth? Or are you assuming the person is of average health? Would you say that for disintegrating people the sixth is as used or perhaps more used than eighth?
So we got there often but at the same time, we don't want to stay there for long.
We normally try to get back to our main functions as soon as possible.
Really? As soon as possible? Doesn't that depend? What does that mean?
Even in shadow mode, we still won't stay in 8th for too long, we will move to our stronger 6th instead.
So you are saying the sixth is stronger and we move from the eighth to the sixth, yet eighth is the most frequently accessed? ?
In that mode, 8th is the first function of our ego-dystonic process. Our "first responder" under stress, but usually not the last.
The consequence of this is that most people develop their 8th in a quite narrow, limited (and often rigid) way, without much mastery, stamina and consistency.
For this reason, 8th users will be prone to overwhelm when they are forced out of their comfort zone to brutally or for too long. I saw that a lot with Sylvia, who would become completely depleted by channeling Ni with me. (I on the other hand would periodically snap over the categorization. I also see this with anthony Fi very clearly.
Some people will specialize in one aspect of the function, and neglect others. Other people will develop and use their 8th in a more 'scattered' way. In both cases, 8th will not cover the full spectrum of the function.
As a result, something will be "off" to the eyes of "true" users of the function.
Yes, but isn't it also true that despite it being splotchy or scattered, most other people will perceive the eighth as more consistently accessed than the user does, and in ct even mistype them as such at times, not unreasonably?
That being said. 8th is still an absolute value slot. it really does matter for us and we usually feel a duty to "get it right". To the point that lots of people actually get jobs and careers that heavily involve their 8th.
Ugh, yeah, don't remind me. I have slavishly paid dues to Si professions, flagellation and all.
The paradox of 8th is that we "lack" a lot of it, and we are very aware that we lack some it. But we also know that the Socion and the World lacks it even more, and we make it our role to preserve what is truly essential in that function. Yes. Ugh. Groan. Why me?
And if you want to know what is truly essential about a function, do not ask dominants, or even agenda users.
Ask healthy role users. They will often know that better than anyone else.
(Si is the perception or conferring of a membrane, limit, or boundary; the rendering of that which is intact, thus to be preserved. Si is thus also 'integrity'.)
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Post by vincent on Feb 16, 2021 12:11:02 GMT -5
For the 8th slot :
The socionic term "adaptative" is another very misleading one.
It is true that we use our 8th slot to adapt to situations where our frame and main processes wouldn't work. But at the same time, our 8th function is also one of the less adaptable of all.
Here is why :
We typically use 8th when :
-our "frame to agenda" process isn't enough
-ignoring is ignored
-seeking isn't found
All in all, it happens a lot, and 8th is usually the most frequently accessed shadow function.
More so than sixth? Or are you assuming the person is of average health? Would you say that for disintegrating people the sixth is as used or perhaps more used than eighth?
Yes i was assuming an average health situation indeed. At some point of unhealth, 6th becomes indeed more used than eight.
So we got there often but at the same time, we don't want to stay there for long.
We normally try to get back to our main functions as soon as possible.
Really? As soon as possible? Doesn't that depend? What does that mean?
Was again assuming average health. And by "main function" i was refering to the first three which forms the main ego-syntonic process. At average level, we have a tendency to go back to our main process because that's where our homeostasis lies. The more unhealthy we become the more frequently we go into shadow mode, and the longer we "linger" there.
Even in shadow mode, we still won't stay in 8th for too long, we will move to our stronger 6th instead.
So you are saying the sixth is stronger and we move from the eighth to the sixth, yet eighth is the most frequently accessed? ?
It's the most frequently accessed shadow function until we become unhealthy enough to not even bother to try using it first, and use our bigger 6th weapon directly instead. Some people will specialize in one aspect of the function, and neglect others. Other people will develop and use their 8th in a more 'scattered' way. In both cases, 8th will not cover the full spectrum of the function.
As a result, something will be "off" to the eyes of "true" users of the function.
Yes, but isn't it also true that despite it being splotchy or scattered, most other people will perceive the eighth as more consistently accessed than the user does, and in ct even mistype them as such at times, not unreasonably?
Yes, it's sometimes pretty hard to distinguish between frame and role because of this. And also because of the "display" aspect of the role function. We often make it very obvious to others that we absolutely value it.
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