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Post by vincent on Feb 9, 2021 15:56:14 GMT -5
Just a list of Riso and Hudson names for each level of health/development, for reference.
Gut types :
Type 8 L1 Magnanimous Heart L2 Self-Confident Person L3 Constructive Leader
L4 Enterprising Adventurer L5 Dominating Power Broker L6 Confrontational Adversary
L7 Ruthless Outlaw L8 Omnipotent Megalomaniac L9 Violent Destroyer
Type 9 L1 Self-possessed Guide L2 Receptive Person L3 Supportive Peacemaker
L4 Accomodating Role-Player L5 Disengaged Participant L6 Resigned Fatalist
L7 Denying Doormat L8 Dissociating Automaton L9 Self-abandoning Ghost
Type 1 : L1 Wise Realist L2 Reasonable Person L3 Principled Teacher
L4 Idealistic Reformer L5 Orderly Person L6 Judgmental Perfectionist
L7 Intolerant Misanthrope L8 Obsessive Hypocrite L9 Punitive Avenger
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Post by vincent on Feb 9, 2021 15:57:02 GMT -5
Heart types :
Type 2 : L1 Disinterested Altruist L2 Caring Person L3 Nurturing Helper
L4 Effusive Friend L5 Possessive « Intimate » L6 Self-Important « Saint »
L7 Self-Deceptive Manipulator L8 Coercive Dominator L9 Psychosomatic Victim
Type 3 : L1 Authentic Person L2 Self-Assured Person L3 Outstanding Paragon
L4 Competitive Status Seeker L5 Image-focused Realist // Image-Conscious Pragmatist L6 Self-promoting Narcissist L7 Exploitative Opportunist // Dishonest Opportunist L8 Malicious Deceiver L9 Vindictive Psychopath
Type 4 : L1 Inspired Creator L2 Self-Aware Intuitive L3 Self-Revealing Individual
L4 Imaginative Aesthete L5 Self-Absorbed Romantic L6 Self-Indulgent « Exception »
L7 Alienated Depressive L8 Emotionally Tormented Person L9 Self-Destructive Person
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Post by vincent on Feb 9, 2021 15:58:50 GMT -5
Head types :
Type 5 : L1 Pioneering Visionary L2 Perceptive Observer L3 Focused Innovator
L4 Studious Expert L5 Intense Conceptualizer L6 Provocative Cynic
L7 Isolated Nihilist L8 Terrified Outsider // Terrified "Alien" L9 Imploding Schizoid
Type 6 : L1 Valiant Hero L2 Engaging Friend L3 Commited Worker
L4 Dutiful Loyalist L5 Ambivalent Pessimist L6 Authoritarian Rebel
L7 Overreacting Dependent L8 Paranoid Hysteric L9 Self-Defeating Masochist
Type 7 : L1 Ecstatic Appreciator L2 Free-Spirited Optimist L3 Accomplished Generalist
L4 Experienced Sophisticate L5 Hyperactive Extrovert L6 Excessive Materialist // Excessive Hedonist
L7 Impulsive Escapist L8 Manic Compulsive L9 Panic-Stricken « Hysteric »
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Post by Roshan on Feb 9, 2021 16:58:56 GMT -5
RH kept futzing with these names but the ones here are almost identical to what I learned in PT, and which I've always felt were the best, but e.g. 5 L8 Terrified Outsider, not Terrified Alien? Are these from PT vincent ? If so, what year/edition?
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Post by vincent on Feb 9, 2021 17:37:28 GMT -5
No, I didn't get them from PT because i had trouble opening my epub version of it on this laptop (worked fine before on pc) That's what prompted me to make that list to begin with.
I got them from a website (which i thought got them directly from PT).
I will try to fix that epub issue tomorrow and will double checked the names then.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 9, 2021 19:00:41 GMT -5
Well, just correct them but don't delete what you have right away vincent. I want to find my copy and compare too.
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jastyne
Hummingbird
Posts: 106
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by jastyne on Feb 9, 2021 21:01:41 GMT -5
Thank you for typing up and sharing this, vincent I don't think I've ever seen all of these written out like this, so there's a lot for me to dive into, here.
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Post by vincent on Feb 10, 2021 14:50:39 GMT -5
So... i still didn't find a way to open epub files with Firefox like before. But i downloaded and installed a stand-alone epub reader instead.
I checked my version of PT (which is a revised edition from 1996) and i added the PT version in the above posts, in red whenever it was different from what i had. (notice the added quotation marks around "intimate" for type 2 L5)
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Post by Roshan on Feb 10, 2021 16:00:19 GMT -5
Okay, some thoughts, which not sure if belong in Foundation but will do here for now. So, still hunting up my copy as there is quite a bit 'in transition' chez moi. But I studied the levels very carefully for a month when I was broke and couldn't even afford to buy a new book let alone take a workshop, and perhaps mercifully there wasn't that much on the Net. So I just decided to work on learning and committing them to memory, and I'll write my thoughts atm using my memory of the names. 5 L8 Terrified Alien is so much better than Terrified Outsider I can't even begin to say; 7 L6 was indeed Excessive Hedonist, which is also incomparably better than Excessive Materialist but maybe I could begin to say. Pretty sure 7 L7 was simply Panic-Stricken Person; as you can see 'hysteric' is an archetypal Six unhealth key word and they shouldn't duplicate--except when only 'Person' was used, and when it was, that was for a reason . Archetypal 7 L9, on the 5-7 line, is the analogue of 'imploded schizoid' 5 L9 only it's a kind of exteriorized imploding (and 'explosion' doesn't quite convey it). With 5, 7 and 9, at L9, there's just really nothing left of the 'ego', so with 7 there isn't really any thing to be hysterical about. Hysteria is still an ego defense, and one that's attached/compliant; it's for/about/to something/someone. 7 L9 can jump off the roof in a panic but it's like an avoidance of the 5 L9 inner nightmarescape; it's not linked to anything/anyone outside, not really. With 5, 7, 9 L9 there is 'nobody home' and I see this all as 'imploded' psyche, van[qu]ished, liquidated ego. I have a lot more to say about this but it doesn't really belong with levels; it belongs with triads, so moving on... Yes, it was Dishonest Opportunist for 3 L7 and I'm somewhat neutral. On the one hand, I prefer Exploitative Opportunist because with 3 L6, you already have a good dollop of dishonesty and only some exploitation, and calling L7 'Dishonest' seemed to imply L6 was not dishonest so in that sense I prefer Exploitative. The problem is that by removing 'dishonest' you then plunge headlong into 'deceiver' at L8 instead of segwaying from maintaining appearances at smack dab average L5 to promotion/pr at L6 to, past the shock point, opportunistic deceit (dishonesty), then purposeful harm-inflicting deceit, then full-fledged psycopathy. The latter is how it works; the deceit factor is like a sliding pond. Type Six L2 almost positive was Engaged Person. "Friend" was used for Type Two L5; again, there was a reason not to duplicate--unless the word was "Person". The focus on just being an engaged 'person' in between heroism and committed work really captures something about the sublime ordinariness of Six. Six is not an image type; at healthy levels it has no need to be 'engaging'; it is subsumed to the work itself.
Also pretty sure this was not the only suffix change along the lines of -ed to -ing, and none seem to benefit. Will be interesting to test my memory. We shell sea.
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Post by vincent on Feb 10, 2021 16:46:42 GMT -5
5 L8 Terrified Alien is so much better than Terrified Outsider I can't even begin to say; 7 L6 was indeed Excessive Hedonist, which is also incomparably better than Excessive Materialist but maybe I could begin to say.
Yes i agree completely.
It makes a LOT of sense indeed.
Yes, i see what you mean.
And i'm not sure about this one either.
I kind of feel that "exploitative" could belong to 2 as well.
And if we look at L7 9 and L7 6, dishonesty seems to fit better than exploitation between denial and overreaction.
Agree. Engaged Person is a LOT better.
I think i have a version of "Understanding the enneagram" somewhere on an usb drive and iirc there is a list of health levels there too. I'll try to find it and check there too.
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Post by vincent on Feb 11, 2021 15:11:09 GMT -5
No luck with the usb drives yet but i did find an online version of it on google books.
It's incomplete (type 2 levels are missing) but it has Engaging Person for E6 L2 and implodED schizoid for E5 L9
tbcd
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Post by Roshan on Feb 11, 2021 15:50:20 GMT -5
Ha....I knew for sure it was implodED schizoid--noticed that one--but also knew for sure it was engagED person. Now I wonder if I made the latter up but I don't think so...and anyway I didn't make up the person part sooooo...we'll see soon. vincent
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Post by vincent on Feb 11, 2021 16:06:27 GMT -5
I don't think so either.
They just tinkered a lot with these names. So far every version i found had some differences.
Btw, in that google books version of "Understanding the enneagram", Terrified "Alien" and Panic-Stricken "Hysteric" lost their quotation marks too.
While, for some reason, Self-Indulgent "exception" got to keep them.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 12, 2021 14:51:05 GMT -5
Curiouser and curiouser said Alice...
so I found PT hard copy, second edition 1996, the one most people have ('big orange book'). The names concur with everything above as is now with corrections in red, including e.g. "Engaging Friend'. But I also have hand-written alternatives next to a few of them, which don't say whether I got them from UTE or RH website. I'll have to dig up my copy of UTE, and also look at RH site (if necessary, in wayback machine, pretty sure I did this in late 2010 or early 2011). It seems I used PT as the template but culled some improvements from one or both of those sources and then committed it all to memory. tbcd
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Post by vincent on Feb 12, 2021 15:17:34 GMT -5
I looked at RH website the other day.
Currently the health levels are described there without names. Just numbers.
Will get back to my usb drives tomorrow and will let you know if i find my own version of UTE.
tbcd.
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