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Post by Roshan on Feb 4, 2021 23:49:52 GMT -5
Despite One wing and all the other Oneish factors, plus actual integration of some 8, the person at the end of this video from about 3'30"on, and in other places earlier on, seems pretty petulantly wide-eyed, pouting, 'help me', and for an adult plenty childish to me.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 4, 2021 23:59:23 GMT -5
To be clear, I do see her as 'in the sp/so<-->so/sx stream" and until recently for two years I was typing her as 7 lead. But this cute petulant poor me-ism, this 'proud to be humbly telling you the truth of how childish I am', it really seems outside the scope of 7 lead. In any case this typing came because I came across that old interview and she's so energetically similar to an sp/SO 2w3(1w2)-9w1(1w2)-5w6(6w7) I know. I do agree Tori should be carefully compared with the others, especially Audrey, to make sure there's enough in the typings to account for the differences...sigh...I ought to make a chart...but at this point I feel pretty sure about sp/SO and 2w1 lead for Tori.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 0:06:39 GMT -5
Stone face. Major sp cover. Lowest sx of anyone in that car. And always seems ready to sit Buddha-like in meditation no matter how excited she gets. Also, as with LDR in "Ride", we start the ride with a swing--here in a playground. (With cornflakes being a breakfast cereal.)
I really do think David got her stacking right. And her pride and compliance seem way too overweening for 7 to lead.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 0:59:07 GMT -5
In this mid-years one, when she's in conversation she still seems like a child woman but oscillating between 4 and 8. Her sx is very upfront but somewhat maniacal, coming blazing out through her eyes like something alien to her base metabolism. 2 between 4 and 8, the compliance between two frenzies; the self-denial between two self-absorptions. The thing is, it seems to be the music that makes her sx come front and center, and even then the brakes are there. Okay-- how is this woman not one of my slutty, over-the-top, inappropriately inviting everyone into their pants on accident so/sx brethren?! Or if not that, SEVEN?! The wildness, the looseness, the smirk, the synflow of it all! Well, she's healthy and she's making music. This isn't her base metabolism. Also by my typing she has a shit ton of One and all of it is integrated to 7.
I'm confusedddddd. Do I know nothing?! [**weeps in lack of ability to see perspective**] I think you just don't see in the overriding arc how prissy Tori is. Even here, the gluttony doesn't seem like part of the base metabolism. It seems more like watching someone have sex or something, rather than that level of stimulation being the actual fixation, which would be 7 lead and/or so/sx.Watching again and ETA: she seems far less image-conscious than are other sp 2 examples, don't you think? Yes, but again, the only other one I have as 2w1 is Marianne Faithfull, who's sp/sx, which regardless of range is very image-conscious. I feel like with the others, their 'playfulness' is much more curated, intentional-- you can see they're aware of/ considering the eyes on them, and how they're going to be perceived by the observer. Tori isn't holding that in the same way-- and she's much, much less 'put together', it seems. Physically, aesthetically, energetically-- she's messier. More careless. Wilder. From this video and from her piano bench humping antics I typed her 7w6 lead.
The problem is it doesn't seem to sustain itself. Her base metabolism in earlier and later ones seems very, very different. Twos in general, and -especially- 2w1s, characteristically have a thing for manners, etiquette, propriety. The earlier and later videos? When Aurora breaks expectations in those areas, for example, it seems quite intentional, and with a specific point that compliments/ adds to her image as the child-like innocent who just wants love and happiness for the world. I can't think of an sp-2 who's not well-groomed... I mean, at least for something like an interview! hmmm...Tori sits in what is known these days as the bisexual style (which-- it's hilariously accurate on that front), but that I also associate with so/sx: legs wide apart. Leaning forward. Spilling out. Careless. Messy. Except when she's sitting like a porcelain china doll with her hands in her lap...Even though 2 is also sp-last in structure, lacking that protective wall/ natural sense of containment, it's not quite the same-- correlating to the sx/so 2 is still, fundamentally, contraflow in structure. It's more held back-- coquettish from the side. A collectedness and intentionality. Less actually direct/ upfront, more indirect, waiting, inviting. I would argue that the 2//sx/so structure more in control of itself than the so/sx // 7 structures (wherever those elements occur in someone's type). I see that in the other sp 2s here, but I don't see it in Tori-- she seems more like a splashy, smirking Ariel Okay, it really depends what video you look at so I guess I'll have to watch every interview of her I can lay my hands on then jastyne .
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Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 1:13:59 GMT -5
Here she has this splat spit chewing tobacco style while she's playing but once she stops pride and prim seem to take precedence over it. In fact she did have her legs spread while playing but she very soon crosses them and her arms too.
Also, there is a particular 'teacher's pet' proud cock of the chin, and she has a tendency to hyper-enunciate didactically. And why is she still wallowing about being a 'disappointment' at eleven if she's a 7 lead? Unless it's 749 tritype after all, but honestly there seems to be so much pride...and very little actual 'melancholy'...just this sort of proud to be humble preachy wallowing in 'bad and sad shit that happened'...(No offense, I like her work).
She seems to 'preen' and there is always a primness to it when she's not playing. Like I said, I was typing her 7w6 lead until recently, and wormhole is a real thing. Even just this cover photo...hard to say for sure whether it's a teacher's pet pride look or a 7 puckish look up front.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 1:54:45 GMT -5
Song for a boy 'on the spectrum'...
Wild or prim?
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Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 2:19:43 GMT -5
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Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 2:42:34 GMT -5
Damn, so much of that interview is about taking up space and pride of place with the audience. And @12'02": "And of course we're having a relationship and never do I walk onstage thinking or wishing to heal anybody because that puts us in a hierarchy".
But the thing is, there was no discussion about healing anybody or about hierarchy either. And I know her 7 is 'in the Six space' but Seven is so reflexively non-hierarchical it's hard to imagine this being articulated...and then she proceeds to speak of giving a space for people to have free will and 'their own journey'...she seems to perceive herself as bestower of services and even provider for (line to 8) more than entertainer or even artist. In fact she even compared herself to a waitress.
If nothing else, the wormhole between Holy Will and Holy Plan is becoming very obvious to me. Something I never considered before.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 5, 2021 2:56:10 GMT -5
@19'23": "so sometimes the way I try to deal with a show is to try and be earth for a minute. A little tiny mini-earth..."
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Post by winter on Feb 9, 2021 23:05:16 GMT -5
Roshan you mentioned prim and pristine in these posts about tori iirc How would that differ in a 2w3 would it be more graceful as opposed to pristine? Or something else?
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Post by Roshan on Feb 10, 2021 18:13:07 GMT -5
winter , well, by the way I conceptualize the dynamic calibration of 'wings', i.e. of 'type' itself, the difference between the wings can be not so obvious, and especially with so-called 2w3 1w2 and 2w1 3w2, it can really be quite negligible--also given all the other factors (fixes, stacking, health level, 'movement of the points'). But loosely speaking 2w3 is on the 2/3 line, 'most interpersonal', while 2w1 is on 1/2, the 'cutting edge'. The cutting edge is very precise, so 2w1 tends to be less 'effusive' than 2w3, more 'dignified'. 2w1 is also more service than presentation oriented. So 2w3 will tend to have a freer range of movement. I would think more in terms of a rigid/spontaneous spectrum, or even solid/fluid than which is more graceful. For instance this woman Holly Seeliger seems to me to be sp/so 2w1 3w2 and she is very graceful, but not spontaneous, while graceful isn't exactly the first word that comes to mind for Hurricane Sandy Ocasio Cortez, who I type as 2w3 1w2 sp/sx. But she is certainly spontaneous (or anyway her body language is).
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Post by Roshan on Feb 10, 2021 18:33:43 GMT -5
Don't forget, it's 2w1, not 2w3, that has the 'double line to 4'. 2w1 can be very, very graceful (or not).
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Post by Roshan on Feb 10, 2021 18:42:42 GMT -5
sp 2w1 will tend to consciously reject the 'daddy's little girl' manipulation more than 2w3. But how that manipulation comes out with the 2w3 can vary a lot...it can be gamine and graceful as a gazelle like Audrey, or it can trundle along like Lana del Rey who, even though she is almost certainly 2w3(3w4), has a bit of a truck driver effect that's often seen with 9w8 and 6 together. But she trundles poutingly along, very aware of the woman-child strategy, always working it.
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Post by Roshan on Feb 13, 2021 7:40:28 GMT -5
I found a couple of interviews of Tori that I never saw before. She may be the first person I've typed who I would just say Level 1 instead of 'healthy'. And healthy people are harder to type but I'm still seeing 2 > 7. Again, I was typing her as 7w6 for the last couple of years but recently it clicked for me. And as it happens, I have a close friend who's sp 7w6 6w5-2w1 3w2-9w1 1w2 (I waiver between sp/so and sp/sx 'Home and Hearth') and she is very, very heady. Tori seems to get heady from heart center and then move back into heart center. I also noticed a video about her called Tori Amos: Alternative rock's wild child turns 50. It's the title that interests me. There seems to have been an awful lot of hype around her that may be influencing perception of type. None of the 90's chicks with piano were wild children. But Tori's base metabolism in particular has a primness to it... (Morrison, that was a wild child of rock...) "And we do not call this the Garden of Original Sin. We call this the Garden of Original Sensuality", she opens the first vid, with didactic hyper-enunciation. I cannot stress this enough (she and I both. ). Gluttony is always there with Tori but she makes a running commentary on it from a stance of compliance. Not for nothing she called her mid-life compilation "Tales of a Librarian".
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Post by vincent on Feb 13, 2021 12:21:20 GMT -5
It's the title that interests me. There seems to have been an awful lot of hype around her that may be influencing perception of type.
Speaking of hype, titles and perception of her type... this popped up on youtube :
I'm still behind with the materials on this thread though, will try to catch up this week end.
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