hiddenglass
Swallow
lay me to rest, take me to sea // read my mind… let me be.
Posts: 179
Enneagram Core Fix: 5⁴
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Interests: growing
Country/Region: chicago
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Post by hiddenglass on Nov 3, 2020 23:58:54 GMT -5
"he's a five wing four six wing five three wing two four wing three nine wing one one wing two"
they're unwieldy, they're confusing to hear spoken, they're off-putting to those of a sceptical bent, but they're here, and they sure do seem "real." what do we do with them?
of course, I mean those little parenthetical denotations after fixes, which everyone calls . . . "subwings"
but what are they? are they wings on wings? are they "sub" anything? what are they "attached" to? the wing? the fix? how do they "work"?
let's talk about it.
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hiddenglass
Swallow
lay me to rest, take me to sea // read my mind… let me be.
Posts: 179
Enneagram Core Fix: 5⁴
Relationship Status: searching
Occupation(s): idling
Education: ongoing
Interests: growing
Country/Region: chicago
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Post by hiddenglass on Nov 4, 2020 0:08:49 GMT -5
everyone knows they've been referred to as "subwings", but our own Roshan calls them "wingspans", claiming they have a "magnitude and vector". but what are "they"??
my personal take, as I mostly credit anthony for communicating to me, is that they are paradigmatic orientations through which the ego fixation seeks to fulfill its egoic drive. it's from this understanding that I've taken to calling them "paradigms". another suggestion is "modes", as they can also be said to be "modal approaches" [to the fixation's egoic drive]
I often explain them to people in terms of fix/wing. using my own core fixation as an example—5w4(6w5):
4 ∶ 5 ∷ 6w5 ∶ 5w4
my 5 fix "leans into" 4 space, adapting 4 influence and strategies to varying degrees, but all ultimately to serve the 5 egoic fixation. This "placement" of the fixation "at 5 in 4" is its own entity, and, just as 5 adopts and adapts 4 strategies to satisfy the aims of 5, so, too, does the cohesive entity of my 5w4 fixation adopt and adapt a 6w5ish orientation or approach to the primary fixation.
But, by all means, I'm among the least educated in the orthodoxy here. please feel the warm invitation to explain better than me
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Post by winter on Dec 1, 2020 19:36:04 GMT -5
Wing span or sub wing creates an image in my brain so when written but paradigm or mode is harder to 'see' so 'leaning' makes sense to me. However I've only seen a semi completed list that isn't generic tumblr. Maybe there is a word to see this leaning or 'swooping' weighted, tilted quality?
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hiddenglass
Swallow
lay me to rest, take me to sea // read my mind… let me be.
Posts: 179
Enneagram Core Fix: 5⁴
Relationship Status: searching
Occupation(s): idling
Education: ongoing
Interests: growing
Country/Region: chicago
|
Post by hiddenglass on Dec 2, 2020 2:27:56 GMT -5
Wing span or sub wing creates an image in my brain so when written but paradigm or mode is harder to 'see' so 'leaning' makes sense to me. However I've only seen a semi completed list that isn't generic tumblr. Maybe there is a word to see this leaning or 'swooping' weighted, tilted quality?
I do know I've wondered why it's "5w4 calibrating to 6w5" and not, say, "5w4 calibrating to 6 instead of 5w4 calibrating into 4"
It seems messier, and more confusing as to why it would be a specific ("6w5") place to which the fixation is calibrating (as opposed to simply calibrating "generally toward" 6) BUT it DOES SEEM like it's calibrating SPECIFICALLY to 6w5, and NOT to 6 generally. |
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hiddenglass
Swallow
lay me to rest, take me to sea // read my mind… let me be.
Posts: 179
Enneagram Core Fix: 5⁴
Relationship Status: searching
Occupation(s): idling
Education: ongoing
Interests: growing
Country/Region: chicago
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Post by hiddenglass on Dec 2, 2020 2:32:56 GMT -5
I'd be interested to hear more (from anyone) about what is exactly happening. I know I've heard some ponderings over the difference between what I call "progressive" paradigm, which are those that are "forward-looking" in the Hero's Journey framework (as applied to the E, or "those paradigms that are located clockwise relative to the fixation") and those paradigms that are "regressive" or "backward-looking" located counter-clockwise relative to the fixation
I think I'd heard secondhand that Roshan supposed that "regressive" paradigms/subwings (like 5w44w3) have perhaps seemed "more stuck in a loop" than "progressive" (5w46w5 as example) ones.
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Post by Roshan on Dec 2, 2020 2:48:07 GMT -5
Yeah, this was on my bucket list. For now here's this that I'd planned on using as a starting place to draft some kind of synopsis for study hall. I copied it from 'a fb group'.(If you want me to block out your last name let me know hiddenglass anthony). |
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hiddenglass
Swallow
lay me to rest, take me to sea // read my mind… let me be.
Posts: 179
Enneagram Core Fix: 5⁴
Relationship Status: searching
Occupation(s): idling
Education: ongoing
Interests: growing
Country/Region: chicago
|
Post by hiddenglass on Dec 2, 2020 2:54:03 GMT -5
nah, I've always been notably "doxxable" so I don't mind.
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hiddenglass
Swallow
lay me to rest, take me to sea // read my mind… let me be.
Posts: 179
Enneagram Core Fix: 5⁴
Relationship Status: searching
Occupation(s): idling
Education: ongoing
Interests: growing
Country/Region: chicago
|
Post by hiddenglass on Dec 2, 2020 3:20:28 GMT -5
Yeah, this was on my bucket list. For now here's this that I'd planned on using as a starting place to draft some kind of synopsis for study hall. I copied it from 'a fb group'.(If you want me to block out your last name let me know hiddenglass anthony ). Robin Goldsmith But the 8/9 line is already like a type (it's possible to 'type on the line') so 8w9 is contained in 9w8. 9w1 is also assumed, as the 'subordinate wing' of 9w8. So the notation convention is to write either 9w8(1w9) or 9w8(8w7), leap frogging over the adjacent wing subtypes. Examples of 9w8(1w9) and 9w8(8w7) would be Bernie Sanders and Harvey Weinstein, respectively. They're normally called 'subwings' and they come out of this old forum called typewatch. But we call them wing spans because we realize they have to also imply different magnitudes of movements. This seems most obvious with 7w6. We all know 7w6s that don't seem to have anything like (6w5) or (8w7); they must just have a small 'wing span'. But it's not heuristically useful, and at this time, not even possible to deal with those variations. So we just use the old typewatch notation warts and all.
interestingly, also, I have indeed witnessed exactly what you mention re the certain "centrality" of many 7w6s.
One thing in which I WOULD be interested, is this "it is possible to type on the line" bit 🧐
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Post by Roshan on Dec 6, 2020 16:07:08 GMT -5
Wing span or sub wing creates an image in my brain so when written but paradigm or mode is harder to 'see' so 'leaning' makes sense to me. However I've only seen a semi completed list that isn't generic tumblr. Maybe there is a word to see this leaning or 'swooping' weighted, tilted quality?
It isn't even so much that someone is 'a' 5w4 calibrating to 4w3 or 6w5 but the head center itself that's calibrating with a primary tendency to 5w4 and a further preference + (two wings clockwise) or - (two wings counterclockwise). Note tendency, preference, it will still move both ways. It's easier to talk about with 6 first, because it's the center of the head center. Imagine we are like an entourage of three cars traveling three roads but they have to get to the same place--so there is a head, heart and gut vehicle/road. Each car has an old fashioned speedometer with a needle, and each road is made for that kind of car. So each road has a different allowable speed limit (both minimum and maximum). The needle moves for Six within the head speed limit, that's it's calibration. Sixes pretty much are spanning the limit allowed for the head road, depending on the usual factors such as how much traffic, whether or not the driver is in a rush, confidence of the driver, what the other drivers are doing, what the visibility is, whether the road is slippery, bumpy, smooth...So 6w7(7w8) likes to stay in the center but a little fast and then go to the maximum, it doesn't prefer to go to the minimum; it will sometimes but it won't stay there. 6w5(7w6) same but a little slower. Etc. (Obviously if there's a traffic jam or ice storm there won't be a minimum speed so we're imagining relatively normal traveling here). The issue is you can see that when head calibrates around the center but then has the (-) preference, 6w5(5w4), already this head its routinely going outside of the 'minimum speed limit' for head vehicles on the head road. Same with any head that is calibrating around 7, the preference to (+) routinely will have it breaking the max limit. Again it's not that the 6w5(5w4) won't ever hit 7, or the 7w6(8w7) won't hit 5, they just won't stay there. Then when head just loves max or min, we get 7w8(8w9) 'head in gut' (so much force, can be very hard to distinguish from an 8) and 5w4(4w3) with a 'compass fail' because the head is now mostly in the heart/image space. So these are heads that are usually speeding or going too slow (interiorized) for the head highway. It's not that 5w4(4w3) needle won't ever hit 6, but it will NOT hit SEVENwEIGHT. However, by core dynamics it WILL move to 7 and 8 routinely, so problem solved ? ? ? Really depends on health level and just L5 smack dab average probably won't be enough to 'just. navigate' headishly among the yoomins... |
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Post by Roshan on Dec 19, 2020 0:08:32 GMT -5
One thing in which I WOULD be interested, is this "it is possible to type on the line" bit 🧐
Actually I had already answered this at quite some length but the text was lost (maddening); then kind of you weren't around much lately so I didn't reconstruct it. But for now I'll say that for example Tom Condon types Jodie Foster as a 1w2 while I independently had typed her as a 2w1. When I found out about that I considered it corroboration since no one else I knew of said anything remotely like me and it is possible to discuss the properties of the 1/2 line. So, 2w1 may have a lot more apparently in common with 1w2 than with 2w3 (except for the motor, which is Pride >> Righteous Wrath). On eidb every now and then there would be a thread about typing on the line and I remember one that ascribed names to the lines. Unfortunately the only name I remember is Gray's 6/7 "The Ricochet". But 6w7s and 7w6s ricochet for different reasons fundamentally--the 6w7 is more afraid of moving from the safe place where they are; the 7w6 is more afraid of missing out with the 'settling down' that moving implies--7 between 5 and 1 is in a way 'bouncing off the walls' of 'settlement' on both sides. So "ricochet' is a dynamic 6w7 and 7w6 both share at a level more superficial than the passions; 6w5 and 7w8 don't ricochet nearly as much. There is just too much 'rejection triad' (5/8) to the configuration. And so you will catch me 'typing on the line'. I'm typing on the line when I refer to the 4/5 line as Bardo, or the 1/2 line as the "Cutting Edge" (Ceres and her Scythe), when I talk about the 2/3 line as "most relational", the 5/6 "Cartesian line", etc. And what I had done in the second part of the original reply here was to go clockwise around the circle (the points of the E all being on one circle) by the lines--the archetypal life path of the lines; in fact, come to think of it I very rarely 'walk around the circle' to show the archetypal journey by the types; I do it by the lines. But...the post got lost so I figured that was a sign to give it more thought so I'll put that toward the top of my EF bucket list rather than walk around the circle now. And end this post with this: when you consider that 5w4 4w3 is 'most disoriented in time and space' (and often most 'original creative artist') while 5w6 6w7 is your archetypal white lab coat applied scientist (who also often winds up with administrative duties), there is a reason for the conceptualization 'typing on the line'. |
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Post by Roshan on Dec 29, 2020 17:43:55 GMT -5
Typing on the line....
In this video 7w6 David Freiheit (Viva Frei), 'Canadian lawyer turned youtube vlogger', is like a 33 rpm record of a 6w7 played at 45.
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Post by Roshan on Dec 29, 2020 17:55:54 GMT -5
Oh...there he goes playing himself at 45 pm later on...but young or emotionally unstable 6w7s can routinely be just as fast or faster than him but it's out of anxiety. Once they're mature or stable enough to be doing what Viva's doing they'll rarely be that fast as base metabolism, especially in a professional context. Talking style 'setting limits' will set in. (Personally I'm finding this hilarious...  ). |
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