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Post by Roshan on Apr 26, 2020 3:05:24 GMT -5
Thomg (Shady) from eidb (the brilliant 5) had said that unhealthy Eight is alexithymic. Trump made me remember this: "Alexithymia is defined by:
difficulty identifying feelings and distinguishing between feelings and the bodily sensations of emotional arousal
difficulty describing feelings to other people
constricted imaginal processes, as evidenced by a scarcity of fantasies
a stimulus-bound, externally oriented cognitive style" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia |
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on May 6, 2020 12:54:22 GMT -5
I don't necessarily think that actual alexithymia only applies to 8s or is even most applicable to the unhealthy 8. Anybody who routinely struggles with impulsive behavior, including(and for example) the obsessive-compulsive manifestation of impulsivity(found in various other types), is exempt from this. I think a person with alexithymia can actually have an enormous capacity for reflection, insight, verbal ability, and apparent self knowledge - that is to say, the person can KNOW they struggle with distinguishing bodily sensations(emotional arousal, discomfort, etc) from feelings.
I think the reason 'alexithymia' characterizes the manifestation of unhealthy 8's is primarily because of the 8's externalized psyche that leads to difficulty with self awareness. They wouldn't know they have it.
As I write this, though, I continue to poke holes in my own logic. What I had just written about 8s above could also apply to, say, 1s - I'm certain there are plenty of obsessive-compulsive 1s out there who wouldn't know they had it either.
As far as actually knowing you struggle with alexithymia, which a glaze over it's definition alone would lead you to think it's impossible, alexithymia can happen momentarily - 'sudden uncontrollable impulses.'
More on this later.
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Post by Roshan on May 6, 2020 13:34:05 GMT -5
anthony, well I'll have to look into alexithymia more carefully. Thanks. tbct'd.
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Post by Roshan on May 11, 2020 19:16:29 GMT -5
Okay, so time to figure out what this is all about. I assumed Thom knew what he was talking about but this video isn't quite the impression I got from the wiki definition, as it only goes into the emotional/physical aspect and not the exteriorized psyche. In fact this person doesn't appear to have an exteriorized psyche; she seems very heady and hyperrruminative (though may be sp/so 2w1 lead). Looks like there may not be a whole lotta consensus about what alexythimia actually is but hey, why would there be.
Anyway this for starters.
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Post by vincent on May 12, 2020 3:43:51 GMT -5
From the wikipedia article :
"Alexithymia occurs in approximately 10% of the population and can occur with a number of psychiatric conditions."
If it's true, it's likely to not be a singular thing with a single etiology.
Ct wise and theoretically, i would guess that it could correlate with a "broken" introverted function on the F-T axis. Ti polr and Fi polr at very low level of health. And if that's true there might be some degree of correlation with E8. But mostly in Se dom cases not so much in Ne dom cases.
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Post by vincent on May 12, 2020 4:11:37 GMT -5
Okay, so time to figure out what this is all about. I assumed Thom knew what he was talking about but this video isn't quite the impression I got from the wiki definition, as it only goes into the emotional/phsyical aspect and not the exteriorized psyche. In fact this person doesn't appear to have an exteriorized psyche; she seems very heady and hyperrruminative (though may be sp/so 2w1 lead). Looks like there may not be a whole lotta consensus about what alexythimia actually is but hey, why would there be. Anyway this for starters.
Well, she "consider herself" as "having it" because there is a reported overlap between autism and alexythima. And she happens to have "scored 124" on an autism test, "which is considered as high on the scale".
What she probably has is "Ti gone wrong" and lots of Pride.
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Post by Roshan on May 12, 2020 15:01:30 GMT -5
Well, she "consider herself" as "having it" because there is a reported overlap between autism and alexythima. And she happens to have "scored 124" on an autism test, "which is considered as high on the scale".
What she probably has is "Ti gone wrong" and lots of Pride.
, what she actually says is she's diagnosed autistic and scored 124 on an alexythimia test. It's funny how neither of us got what she said quite right. You knew she wasn't diagnosed with alexythimia and I knew what test she took. I think it has something to do with her presentation being rather "unnerving". But okay, we should start with the professionals first. tbct'd |
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Post by vincent on May 12, 2020 15:17:06 GMT -5
Oh right ! My bad.
Right. And the fact we have seen/heard "it resonates with me" so many times before in the typology community doesn't help either.
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Post by Roshan on May 12, 2020 15:17:57 GMT -5
Probably Dr. Dawn Neumann, PhD's, brief explanation on brainilne.org is a good place to start. Brainline.org is a non-profit dedicated to helping people with traumatic brain injury. Her bioBy her definition, alexythimics don't process the somatic information either; they just react. This is a pretty different story than ^^^... |
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Post by vincent on May 12, 2020 15:37:47 GMT -5
Her definition sounds a LOT like a definition of "a very bad case of Fi polr + Si ignoring". aka : unhealthy ESTP.
But then, that's certainly not 10% of the population.
And there shouldn't be a large overlap with autism.
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Post by Roshan on May 12, 2020 16:30:21 GMT -5
Good ol' Dr. Grande adds his two cents. He doesn't correlate it with autism, but with psychopathology in general, and especially Cluster B (non-histrionic). But by the time he got to that I had already figured out the diagnosed antisocial bf of days of yore had this. SeTi as vincent knows.  639 very heavy on the 8. Also 8% of men and 2% of women sounds more plausible. That's 5% not 10% of the population. As he goes on, starting with mostly summarizing the first video and also adding in correlation wth PTSD, I realized Trotting Pony also seems rather alexythimic, has PTSD, and was typed as SeTi. |
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Post by Roshan on May 12, 2020 16:47:08 GMT -5
Three main kinds.
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Post by Roshan on May 12, 2020 16:50:10 GMT -5
Pseudo-Brando Aspect 1, Trotting Pony Aspect 3.
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Post by vincent on May 12, 2020 17:09:40 GMT -5
I'll watch this tomorrow but this already makes a lot more sense and sounds a lot more plausible.
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Post by Roshan on May 12, 2020 17:45:23 GMT -5
Aspect 2 ("I Wasn't Yelling!") correlates to Si lead (either one) and also to 9. My SiFe 9w8 father, SiTe former Business Partner of mine--unsurprisingly--also 9w1, and SeTi 9w8 Czech theater director ex-bf, all had a bit of the Aspect 2.
Come to think of it Pseudo-Brando may have been sp 9w8 lead. That would explain why I couldn't stack him. Aspects 1 and 2 correlate quite highly to 9. But even Trotting Pony is a counter-passion 9.
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639 very heavy on the 8. Also 8% of men and 2% of women sounds more plausible. That's 5% not 10% of the population.