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Post by vincent on Nov 26, 2019 11:38:59 GMT -5
A few "educated guesses" for reference and further discussions
Parmenides : NiFe Heraklites : NiTe
Socrates : TiNe
Plato : TeNi (corrected from FeNi thanks to @roshanak d'omani) Aristotle : SiTe
Diogenes : TiSe
Marcus Aurelius : SiFe Plotinus : NiFe Augustine : FiNe
Averroes : SiTe (corrected from TiNe, thanks ahmed for pointing out that mistake) Thomas Aquinas : NiTe
Ibn Khaldun : NiTe (corrected from NiFe, see discussion below)
Giordano Bruno : NeFi
Luther : FeNi
Descartes : SeTi
Leibniz : NeTi Spinoza : NiFe Hume : NeTi
Hobbes : SiTe
Voltaire : SiFe
Rousseau : FiNe Kant : SiTi (corrected from TiNe, see discussion here) Hegel : TeNi Schopenhauer : FiNe
Nietzsche : NeFi Freud : SiTe
Jung : NiFe
Wittgenstein : NiTe
Russell : TiNe (high health, Ne subtype, see discussion below)
Husserl : TiSe
Heiddeger SiTe Weil TiNe (thanks Roshan , see discussion below) Bachelard : TiNe
Deleuze : NiTe (see discussion below)
Foucault : TeNi Zizek : NeTi
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Post by Roshan on May 23, 2020 23:20:55 GMT -5
A few "educated guesses" for reference and further discussions
Ibn Khaldun : INFJ Luther : ENFJ Russel : INTP Why? |
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 8:17:07 GMT -5
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 8:21:49 GMT -5
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 8:24:56 GMT -5
He lost both parents and a sister by the time he was two years old, apparently. Here at Trinity College,1893.  |
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Post by vincent on May 24, 2020 8:36:08 GMT -5
For Russell, Ne-Si axis over Ni-Se axis seems obvious to me. Alphaness too.
His epistemology, logic and mathematical work is extremely Ti.
And most of it is very good Ti.
Unlikely to be inferior imo.
But he doesn't have the "chaos agent" factor i would expect from NeTi.
He doesn't have the sheer lovecraftian weirdness i would expect from SiTi jumper.
so my guess would be TiNe.
Healthy, with Ne subtype and found Fe.
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 8:36:49 GMT -5
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 8:42:59 GMT -5
For Russell, Ne-Si axis over Ni-Se axis seems obvious to me. Alphaness too.
His epistemology, logic and mathematical work is extremely Ti.
And most of it is very good Ti.
Unlikely to be inferior imo.
But he doesn't have the "chaos agent" factor i would expect from NeTi.
He doesn't have the sheer lovecraftian weirdness i would expect from SiTi jumper.
so my guess would be TiNe.
Healthy, with Ne subtype and found Fe.
Agree Ne-Si axis was very obvious in THOWP. What precisely is it that makes you say Alpha quadra is so obvious? Of course I'm aware (dimly) of the work he did with Whitehead and yeah...Principia Mathematica so duh Ti frame. Also of course he's not NeTi. He does seem particularly Si-heavy though. Perhaps that happened as he got older, and that is the 'warmth' in THOWP. |
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 8:46:41 GMT -5
(I mean I even tried to read Whitehead but...Swiss cheese brain...  Perhaps I'll give it another go if I ever do that algebra through trig review that's been on my 'bucket list' for three decades.) |
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Post by vincent on May 24, 2020 8:47:07 GMT -5
Tbh, Luther as ENFJ is one of the most tentative of those tentative typing.
His relationship with Sources and Authorities seems driven from the Shadow And i think Ne 6th with counterphobic Si polr could work. His life story seems consistent with Se agenda too, imo.
That would make him one of those Zeitgeist Riders ENxJs.
And if that's the case a beta one seems more likely to me than a gamma one.
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Post by vincent on May 24, 2020 8:56:15 GMT -5
This guy want to turn the world into a campfire. Very vocal universalist, pacifist, globalist, idealist.
Which gave allergic reactions to Wittgenstein.
When Russell suggested a global League for Peace and Freedom, Wittgenstein hissed.
Russell said "i suppose you would prefer a league for Slavery and War" Wittgenstein said "much rather !"
Their relationship with Wittgenstein is actually an excellent example of Alpha vs Gamma tensions.
And it's consistent with a complicated quasi-identity one, rather than with a super-ego one.
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 9:00:53 GMT -5
He doesn't have the sheer lovecraftian weirdness i would expect from SiTi jumper.
so my guess would be TiNe.
Healthy, with Ne subtype and found Fe.
Right, I was thinking of something with heavier Si but it has to be Ti frame with "unhidden agenda". Also Ni demonstrative and Fi role became organically heightened and fused in the 'where we are going and why?" of his anti-war and anti-nuclear activism. If nothing is done, the ultimate 'collapsing' of time as we know it is nigh... Ni has something to do with 'oblivion'. Ti itself is a gossamer matrix spread over 'the Void'. |
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 9:03:26 GMT -5
This guy want to turn the world into a campfire. Very vocal universalist, pacifist, globalist, idealist.
Which gave allergic reactions to Wittgenstein.
When Russell suggested a global League for Peace and Freedom, Wittgenstein hissed.
Russell said "i suppose you would prefer a league for Slavery and War" Wittgenstein said "much rather !"
Their relationship with Wittgenstein is actually an excellent example of Alpha vs Gamma tensions.
And it's consistent with a complicated quasi-identity one, rather than with a super-ego one.
This is another illustration of how I'm an 'alpha-friendly' Gamma. I think it has to do with my being NiFi 'jumper with strong unignoring Ne so heavy 'universalist' Si role, which makes the Fi 'jump' more over the campfire. I really like Russell. He doesn't bother me at all. |
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Post by Roshan on May 24, 2020 9:13:18 GMT -5
I can't stand the narcissistic Alpha 'leaders' because their agenda and behavior are so incongruent with and hypocritical in terms of the philosophy they espouse. Also the crazy preaching SiFe's and obviously FeSi is my conflictor. But overall Alpha bugs me less than Delta. Probably because I have more in common with Delta so I see through the posturing. It seems like they are often avoiding certain truths intentionally. Always moving the goal posts. I guess I sort of see the 'childish idealism' of Alpha as something purer, and necessary to be supported--though I can't stand hanging out around an Alpha campfire and am much more at ease at a Delta conference. But would have been far more likely to find Russell at a conference anyway.  |
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Post by vincent on May 24, 2020 9:13:47 GMT -5
Ibn Khaldun sense of history seems Ni over Si to me.
He looks for long run and large scope patterns, identity points of collapses and matrixes at work behind the historic development of civilizations.
Si polr/Se agenda doesn't seem like a viable option though.
So i think he has to be a INxJ.
Either an INTJ trying to "reach" Fe through Te.
or an INFJ trying to "reach" Te through Fe.
I'm not entirely sure it's the later option, but it seems more likely to me, because he doesn't seem to ever approach or consider economy directly.
He goes there through other social disciplines and he put a lot of emphasis on kinship, tribal cohesion, bonds and Asabiyyahin a way that seems very NiFe to me, and almost socionic-ish actually.
Some of his stuff is very Ti too, including the stuff about Zairja i recently posted about.
I'm planning on reading more of and about him during this summer.
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Perhaps I'll give it another go if I ever do that algebra through trig review that's been on my 'bucket list' for three decades.)