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Post by Roshan on Jun 24, 2021 6:46:13 GMT -5
Make sure you choose THREE answers: one lead e-type, one stacking, and one tritype. The poll template falls one option short of offering all the possibilities so I consolidated two that seem unlikely. Please DO discuss here and there before voting (but I'll just listen). Polling closes at midnight NYC time this coming Saturday. Amy , anthony , jastyne , vincent , winter ( if you're up to it), anyone...
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Post by Roshan on Jun 24, 2021 6:59:42 GMT -5
TTT 4A ancestral thread. Behold, wonder of wonders. Ice has come to Macondo. * * * This Pinterest has really good photos of Welles.
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jastyne
Hummingbird
Posts: 106
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by jastyne on Jun 25, 2021 7:41:16 GMT -5
Can we possibly push back the poll deadline?
I'm just now able to take a look at all this, and...
Well, while I obviously know the name, I've never actually seen a Welles film. My maternal grandmother gave me Citizen Kane and a few other of his movies as a university graduation gift, but they promptly got lost in a move.
So, this is my first time really dipping my toes into the Welles waters, and I am...
Well, let's just say: I can tell I'm going to be in here a minute
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Post by Roshan on Jun 25, 2021 8:38:45 GMT -5
Can we possibly push back the poll deadline? jastyne, I knew I couldn't just edit the deadline, but I tried unlocking and relocking the poll and it still won't let me. It stubbornly keeps the same deadline with no option to edit. So what you can do is just 'not peek' here and post when you're ready.
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Post by Roshan on Jun 26, 2021 8:35:34 GMT -5
bump! Vote by midnight NYC time tonight, Amy , anthony , vincent , me and anyone else who wants to! Lead E-type, stacking and tritype!
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Jun 26, 2021 20:22:27 GMT -5
Firstly, I should communicate that my typing here was based primarily on energetic impressions(most of which I was directed to notice by Roshan) from multiple interviews and photos. Welles is definitely one of the hardest people I’ve ever tried to type, and I’m still not clear on most of the smaller details in his configuration. I haven’t even seen Citizen Kane yet. Nevertheless, I’ll try to articulate most of the impressions I’ve gathered thus far. 4w3(3w2) lead with 7w6(6w5) and 8w9(9w1) So/Sp is where I’m at right now. In almost every interview, especially the ones where he’s younger, he always has this veneer of ‘refinement’ about him—sort of [but not really] like Eliot, speaking with an affected voice/accent as though he came from some European aristocracy(“from the manor”), always with pop eyes that make him look like he’s about to cry. Behind those eyes, and with those eyebrow movements, he has this subtly suggestive quality, like there’s something incipiently brooding from within him, “ready to fight dirty.” He has this mix of extreme self-consciousness and hearty and wholesome ‘here-and-now’ confidence in action, and this strikes me as essentially heavy 4 and heavy 8— “lamenting” and “disparagement” and “wishing to be moved in time” mixed with “laying trips.” In this video, he takes what appears to be an almost ‘anti-E5’ stance with respect to knowledge/mastery and filmmaking. He got his confidence from ‘sheer ignorance’ and says that it’s only when you know something about a profession that you’re timid and careful. This sort of pre-verbal, instinctive, ‘I just know’ stance towards creating films seems exceptionally 8ish to me—”Holy Truth,” there’s always an essential knowing/truth residing in all beings in the world, and this is what enables us to act confidently. The whole “I thought you could do anything with a camera that they eye/imagination could do” and “anything I could think up in my dreams, I attempted to photograph,” sounds very 7ish—DG’s “snap architecture,” “having the money to spend at a restaurant and analyzing options,” the ‘bounty of idea.’ I don’t think he’s 7w8 or 8w7 fixed, he seems energetically 8/9 line and 7w6 specifically. His entire attitude and approach thus far feels like a combination between 378 “Big Game Hunter” and 479 “Dream Weaver.” To be continued...
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 3:50:54 GMT -5
Firstly, I should communicate that my typing here was based primarily on energetic impressions(most of which I was directed to notice by Roshan ) from multiple interviews and photos. Welles is definitely one of the hardest people I’ve ever tried to type, and I’m still not clear on most of the smaller details in his configuration. I haven’t even seen Citizen Kane yet. Nevertheless, I’ll try to articulate most of the impressions I’ve gathered thus far. Okay let me try to get this clear, for myself included. My original impression from afar was 7w8, but it seemed obvious that he was very, very Eightish, especially when he was older, and I assumed 8 fix. But it also felt like it should be lead, but somehow that often didn't fit. I also thought he had 4 and I was very confused about the stacking. And I was very aware that he was considered a Four by RH and eidb.
You wrote me and told me that you knew who he was from the first photo and that's why we discussed him. Your first typing was sp/so 7w6-9w8-3w2 and I said he couldn't be sx last, synflow, and have the 379 tritype and no actual 8 or 4 fix (even with 9w88w9) and you didn't see why not at first. This influenced me to think that maybe I was wrong about just how Eightish he was and it also led me to take a more serious look at whether I was missing something about Four lead and 4w33w2 was what we pretty much settled on.
But when other people started discussing, it all clicked for me and I realized that you were right that he was 3 fixed (and also that that 3 COULD be 3w2) but that what was being mistaken for 4 by RH and eidb was a fireside sx/so on an 8 lead. sx 8 Dominance and Submission is the least Eightish 8--when in submission mode, it's countertype. So I settled on SX/so 8w7-3wX-6w5 and at this point I'd say 8w79w8-3w42w3-6w57w6, but there's wiggle room on the wings, and the more I think about it now the more I realize there is.
I wasn't sure whether or not to tell you, or how or how much, and then for two days I got caught up in what I got caught up in--such is the level of driven obsessional focus of fireside sx/so that it didn't even occur to me to bring it up during that time--and then when you voted it was too late. But Orson Welles wasn't human, and I really don't think there's any other way to explain his alternating between hot and cold, the burning quality that then suddenly goes frozen, soft and hard, extreme boundary and no boundaries, extreme aloofness and extreme approachability, and the intensity of both focus and dissipation than fs SX/so. And once you have that there's just nothing stopping the 8 from leading and you also don't need that much 4.
fs SX/so with its sp/sx shadow appears sp/sx--that is, sp first--until it doesn't. That was the problem I was having with the stacking. tbcd
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 4:19:29 GMT -5
So let me explain the flows for ahmed . The stackings have two flows, synflow and counterflow. Synflow is sp/so--> so/sx-->sx/sp--> Counterflow is sp/sx--> sx/so-->so/sp--> These flows correspond to the six Buddhist realms, in order: animals, humans, hungry ghosts, demons, gods, and titans. Loosely speaking, synflow goes with, counterflow goes against, the normal currents of events. The stackings shift into each other on one flow from a 'base stacking' and over a lifetime they do move significantly. Because of the ranges, which you already know about, the single and double variant stackings are more energetically linked to an adjacent stack. What I'm saying about Welles as fireside, very high sx, is that his flow looks like this: sp/SX--->SX/so-->so/sp Fs SX/so is drawing on sp/sx, pulling it along with it.
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 4:56:27 GMT -5
anthony , I also wanted to point out that in the Covington Catholic video Part 2, once I felt confident my eyes were popping out of my head a lot too, and probably if I were an 8 that would happen more.
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 5:01:47 GMT -5
Also, fireside is an extreme exhibitionist, and I think that could account for the fake British accent without having the actual 4 to 1 line, just 3w4 arrogance 'of the manor born'.
The fake British accent was not uncommon for American actors in those days but of course they didn't all do it.
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 5:05:48 GMT -5
We also have to remember there is an 8/4 wormhole. It rarely gets talked about because people don't know what to do with it.
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 5:30:37 GMT -5
Something about his films--he was a visionary innovator but they're not exactly the deepest or even most romantic brooding. I am so so tempted to give him 3w2 but then I think why would he even have bothered? Still he could be commercially quite crass and he was also a life-long magician. I think a lot of his creative innovation came from the stacking with 8w7 'Maverick'. A lot of the visual effects using the set in Citizen Kane turn out to be just that: effects, and they're seen as proto-animation use in film.
If he's going to be sx last then yes, he needs the 4 fix, but that wild look in his eyes...now you see it, now you don't....
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 6:31:10 GMT -5
About 6 > 7 idk, something about him is so avuncular despite it all. Like if he weren't an actor and filmmaker he might have owned the local children's shoe store and kept little red and white candy canes for the children. Something very 'Everyman' too. About 5 wing > 7, idk he seems rather mirthless for a wizard (at least until he got older). Should have more withdrawn factors (but an actual 4 fix with those films and that stacking?) and I find it hard to imagine he was really the 'anti-5'. I would imagine he held a lot close to the vest. Of course 8 always does but still...Like I said the wings leave a lot of wiggle room. I do find 8w7 lead and 7 fix or even 6w7 difficult though. It feels like we're watching a puppet show and the puppeteer himself is very reticent and controlling. Which after all, as a film director he would have to be...
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 6:35:39 GMT -5
In any case now we have two 478 and two 368 and I know both 478s are 4 lead and sx last and both 368s are 8 lead and sx/so. So a lot comes down to what is 4 and what is stacking.
I'd say of course he could be midstream sx/so with a 4 fix except he really really often looks sp/sx while social last is impossible, and that seems fs SX/so. And in that case, 4 on top of that? Also, why so 'bombastic'? And why so protean? Why so mutable? Is that Four?
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Post by Roshan on Jun 27, 2021 6:56:14 GMT -5
It seems we are n ot the only ones with such problems.
But I gotta say, there is a huge 'Big Daddy' aspect to Welles. As in the first photo there. 'Big Daddy' being the pater familias in the Tennessee Williams play 'Cat on a Hot Tin Roof'. This is probably most of all where I get the 6 fix. Pater familias is archetypal 836.(With 3w2, I should add). Another thing is he can be very Brandoish (as in the second photo there). We have Brando sp/sx 638.
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