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Post by Roshan on Mar 18, 2020 11:23:40 GMT -5
I've watched her stuff on again, off again, for a few years as it pops up on youtube. She seems very competent but not very compelling (to me, though she is to a more 'normie' audience for sure EDIT 9/28 When it came time for me to deal with her main issue which is narcissistic abuse, she became VERY compelling), very media savvy but not too self-promotional, very ambitious but not too self-absorbed. She also seems to walk a fine line of being very effusive without being intrusive or even quite seductive. I guess it's an issue of health level but it may also have to do with type.
First of all she's very Eightish and Twoish but I think her lead may be 7w8. Also I'm not sure if her heart is 2w3 or 3w2. Especially if she has an 8 fix and 7w8 she may just have a lot of movement to 2 and it may be 3 heart that keeps this sort of 'perfect balance'; she just never seems to quite go overboard, ever. She always seems to very naturally maintain her boundaries. I keep expecting her to 'pounce' and commit a faux pas that undermines her professionalism but she doesn't.
This may also have to do with sp dom; she may have sp/SX stacking. Again, not sure, but I don't think this is an uncommon stacking for therapists. Also she definitely seems to be a high Se user (to me) and this seems to be frame; offhand I thought SeFi but she seems somehow not 'individualistic' enough for this or maybe even for gamma. Like I don't remember her ever even offering a specific anecdote about any person. At the same time she doesn't seem 'cagey' enough for SeTi. She seems too impulsive and 'heart on her sleeve'.This might leave the possibility of FeNi?? idk. Have to think about her more but maybe someone has some impressions? I hadn't even considered Delta types and Alpha seems quite out of the question.
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anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
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Post by anthony on Mar 18, 2020 11:47:48 GMT -5
7w8(6w7) lead - she's fundamentally engaged with the saddling of true IDEAS first and foremost, and possesses an obviously grounded yet mentally engaged nature that leads to this "idea conquering."
3w2(2w1) for the heart - even though they're very different people, the way that she presents through the heart actually reminds me of that guy Louis Theroux. The quality of maintaining an interpersonal emotional resonance with an underlying hard surface. I cannot imagine a 7w8, if that's her lead, with 2, being as "controlled and competent" as she. Deceit > Pride/Flattery.
8w9(9w1) gut, she seems to continue independently, powerfully, and peacefully continue movement without the attachment of 9 gut or the megalomania of 8w7.
Sp/SX definitely seems fitting.
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Post by vincent on Mar 18, 2020 11:52:36 GMT -5
Ct wise, my first impression is TeNi for her.
I do see some Fe, but it doesn't feel like a frame, and could very well be role.
Her body language shows a lot of Te (karate hands, enumeration of bullet points, quite a bit of pointing and 3d manipulation).
Some Se grabbing too.
Her discerning is very clearly Ni over Si.
I agree she doesn't seem obviously gamma but i think it's still consistent with TeNi Fi inf.
She reminds me quite a bit of Jordan Peterson actually.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 18, 2020 12:03:12 GMT -5
Ct wise, my first impression is TeNi for her. I do see some Fe, but it doesn't feel like a frame, and could very well be role. Her body language shows a lot of Te (karate hands, enumeration of bullet points, quite a bit of pointing and 3d manipulation). Some Se grabbing too. Her discerning is very clearly Ni over Si. I agree she doesn't seem obviously gamma but i think it's still consistent with TeNi Fi inf. She reminds me quite a bit of Jordan Peterson actually. Well I was just about to ask if TeSi could have a strong enough demonstrative that it seems frame so Te lead DID strike me as very possible. She is VERY legalistic and categorical about psychology; she seems HAPPY about it. These categories work SO well, what's to worry about? (For which reason I started considering Delta option... ) But HOW does she remind you 'quite a bit' of Jordan Peterson? This woman is very intensely embodied, her eyes pop out of her head with obvious extroversion, absorbing the sensorial world. She has a rich voice and grounded presence. How is she Se seeking? agenda |
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Post by vincent on Mar 18, 2020 12:15:24 GMT -5
It's hard to pinpoint and put down in words.
It has something to do with hand gestures, voice and cadence.
I agree she is a high Se user.
But TeNi would be Se agenda, not Se seeking.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 18, 2020 12:22:50 GMT -5
It's hard to pinpoint and put down in words. It has something to do with hand gestures, voice and cadence. I agree she is a high Se user. But TeNi would be Se agenda, not Se seeking. Yes but that's what I meant. Agenda. How is it an agenda? It seems very much a given. Right there. Maybe she's a 'jumper'? Te/Se. "It's hard to pinpoint and put down in words. It has something to do with hand gestures, voice and cadence". I don't know what I'm supposed to do with this. |
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Post by Roshan on Mar 18, 2020 12:24:17 GMT -5
ps Like I said she loves those labels. She seems to dispense somewhat of Ni as tool and go straight from doing business to doing business. Te-->Se.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 18, 2020 12:25:28 GMT -5
And I could easily see people thinking I have to be Fi frame or second. So maybe she is a jumper.
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Post by vincent on Mar 18, 2020 12:31:16 GMT -5
Right. I'll try to give you more to work with when i get the chance to watch the whole thing.
Yes. She could be a TeSe jumper indeed.
The thing is, the two Se dominant types doesn't seem to work. Se auxiliary types are introverted, and she is clearly not.
Next options are Se tertiary and Se demonstrative. And her Se seems too organic to be a strong 6th imo.
So i suspect what we are seeing is either a very well developed tertiary or a jumping one.
But i need to watch more.
tbcd.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 18, 2020 13:16:40 GMT -5
I've watched her stuff on again, off again, for a few years as it pops up on youtube. She seems very competent but not very compelling (to me, though she is to a more 'normie' audience for sure), very media savvy but not too self-promotional, very ambitious but not too self-absorbed. She also seems to walk a very fine line of being very effusive without being intrusive or even quite seductive. I guess it's an issue of health level but it may also have to do with type. Actually, vincent , my initial description of her pretty much screams Te frame. The jumper may be what accounts for the weird affect of seeming Se frame yet never quite 'pouncing'. |
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Post by Roshan on Mar 19, 2020 11:32:52 GMT -5
Sorry, for some reason just saw anthony 's post on her E-type; also am rewatching the video and realized when I watched it before it didn't start at the beginning. This beginning really does seem obviously Te frame vincent ; she makes bullet points with hands and mind about absolutely everything. It's also more obviously head lead (7w8>8) because she really does 'saddle ideas' constantly--also talks about the research she's doing which I hadn't seen--and 3w2>2w3 by far. It's long but I'll watch the whole thing. atm I want to point out between 9 and 10 minutes when she talks about what antisocial personality disorder is, she becomes subtly but visibly elated when she pinpoints their defining feature as lacking remorse ("Here's the ringer"), and also when she says they will fake remorse and then go right back out and do it again. She seems to find their doing it again exhilarating. She seems particularly happy when she says "That's where it gets scary". She is sort of a very healthy predator. Tritype 378 Big Game Hunter, sp/SX. Her patients, but most of all her patients within research framework, are what she hunts. Te-->Se is her gun. This is why she never loses composure. It's about the win. |
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Post by Roshan on Mar 19, 2020 11:51:56 GMT -5
So far I have been mostly working with the idea of two styles of sp/sx--there is a predator style with shooting for the kill eyes (which can easily be mistaken for double head lead). It looks straight ahead almost squinting down a gun barrel with almost no peripheral vision. There is a prey style that has a deer in the headlights eyes more open and startled, almost frozen, look. What's going on with both of these is there is a viscerally intense but emotionally non-specific stance toward others; it's non-discriminatory. Whoever could be whatever. Nothing/no one's exactly personal but everyone's potentially visceral--because cannibalism could happen at any time. You just never know. The issue is to deal with everyone that's in your path as having this potential and to suss them out.
Here we have this wide-eyed (and very extroverted) openness but it's not prey stance. As for predator, there is much more of a broad field being taken in at once but that's just because of the nature of the organ (eye); there is still not much peripheral vision going on. Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, sp/SX 7w8-3w4-1w9 would display this onstage. He would make these wide open eyes to 'lure' people in the back of the concert halls in. There is not so much distinction between predator OR prey because the sx is so strong. Role switching is always possible. I get the sense Dr. Ramani enjoys getting beaten now and then by a good court-mandated antisocial patient who chest-beats remorse and then walks out of her office to serial mug again; it seems without relapse and recidivism the practice of psychology would be far less rewarding for her.
In other words, she enjoys sometimes getting 'taken'.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 19, 2020 12:20:53 GMT -5
@16'55"-17'22"
The joys of being strong and charm-proof with narcissistic clients.
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Post by Roshan on Mar 19, 2020 13:49:47 GMT -5
@23'15" she starts to define antisocial personality, psychopath and sociopath. The thing is the distinctions she makes don't broach the heated debate about nomenclature going on and she has to know this. She's actually imposing her preference of definitions without disclosing that she's doing this. She essentially builds upon when she said at the beginning of the video that she would like the term 'antisocial' personality disorder to be replaced by 'psychopathic'--because 'antisocial' is misleading, suggesting avoidants and others who just don't want to engage.
Edited
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Post by vincent on Mar 19, 2020 14:41:21 GMT -5
So far I have been mostly working with the idea of two styles of sp/sx--there is a predator style with shooting for the kill eyes (which can easily be mistaken for double head lead). It looks straight ahead almost squinting down a gun barrel with almost no peripheral vision. There is a prey style that has a deer in the headlights eyes more open and startled, almost frozen, look. What's going on with both of these is there is a viscerally intense but emotionally non-specific stance toward others; it's non-discriminatory. Whoever could be whatever. Nothing/no one's exactly personal but everyone's potentially visceral--because cannibalism could happen at any time. You just never know. The issue is to deal with everyone that's in your path as having this potential and to suss them out. Here we have this wide-eyed (and very extroverted) openness but it's not prey stance. As for predator, there is much more of a broad field being taken in at once but that's just because of the nature of the organ (eye); there is still not much peripheral vision going on. Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull, sp/SX 7w8-3w4-1w9 would display this onstage. He would make these wide open eyes to 'lure' people in the back of the concert halls in. There is not so much distinction between predator OR prey because the sx is so strong. Role switching is always possible. I get the sense Dr. Ramani enjoys getting beaten now and then by a good court-mandated antisocial patient who chest-beats remorse and then walks out of her office to serial mug again; it seems without relapse and recidivism the practice of psychology would be far less rewarding for her. In other words, she enjoys sometimes getting 'taken in'.
Very interesting insight !
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