|
Post by Roshan on May 30, 2021 13:02:37 GMT -5
Se 8 Si 1
Fe 2 Fi 4
Te 3 Ti 5
Ne 7 Ni 6
with 9 being 'the field'
Loosely S correlates to gut/body/moving triad, F to heart/feeling/value triad and T corresponds to head/fear/thinking/(and some say 'doing' meaning 'planning to do') triad. However 3 IS heady heart (6 in the core, etc.) and there is an aspect to Te that is 'need to display finished product, even when premature, so take shortcuts, whence heart as also 'image' triad. So 3 seems to bridge heart and head ct-wise. Meanwhile "N" is correlating on the 6/7 line, but that 6/7 line is ALSO where we re-emerge from the Bottom of the E, where 'image production' vanished and dissolved and then we resurrected, we tried again, this time with more vigilance. 6 (Janus-faced) still looking back, 7 looking forward. So N is located within T, looking back at F and forward to S. What we see is none of the triangle points are quite 'in their triad' cognitively, on archetypal level--although 'in the wild' Si does have correlation to 9w1, and there is also Fi correlation to 1 and 2w1 (line/s to 4). There is also some correlation of Te with 1/7, etc.
This is very much 'just throwing it out there'.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 30, 2021 13:08:14 GMT -5
And needless to say there are a lot of Sixes who don't, or don't seem to, correlate with Ni but if you actually read the Ni descriptions it's very obvious that they correlate to the baseline E descriptions of 6, despite Ni being a 'glamour type' for people's, including many experts', narcissistic idealized selves and 6 being a spittoon for their deprecated traits.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 30, 2021 13:16:16 GMT -5
(btw here I should probably mention again our expectation of attribution in as much as possible when/if clearly original ideas germane to this forum are disseminated by members. I say by members because with non-members I can't expect but only request).
|
|
anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
|
Post by anthony on May 30, 2021 15:23:48 GMT -5
This is an unfinished, spontaneously realized idea that I'm also very much just 'throwing out there,' but I definitely think there's likely something to this. I was thinking about the relationship between the functions(specifically Ji, Je, Pi, and Pe for each type) and the individual's relationship to them with respect to their conscious and shadow stack. I imagined that somewhere in the space between the conscious and shadow stack, there's the 9 'field' and the 4/5 hole, and that there should be a relationship between the individual's experience of symbolic 'bounty' and 'lack' that manifests in terms of Ji, Je, Pi, and Pe. This is a lot clearer to me, at least at the moment, with the conscious stack. To use my CT(TiNe) as an example: 1 and 8 = Ti and Fi (Ji) 2 and 7 = Ne and Se (Pe) 3 and 6 = Si and Ni (Pi) 4 and 5 = Fe and Te (Je) For the conscious part of my stacking(1 through 4: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe), my capacity/competency to use each function drops at each decreasing level: I'm 'swimming in' and 'surrounded by'(8, 9, 1 space) Ti, then Ne is sort of where I exercise the Ti bounty(2 and 7, "Holy Freedom" and gluttony), then Si is my agenda(what I'm "attached" to, 3 and 6 attachment) and what all other processes are essentially revolving around securing, then Fe is basically where I experience my 'lack,' what I need others to provide, the part of my stack that I've been 'exiled' from and that I'm seeking to 'rectify.' After this there should be a sort of 'jumping over,' there's a space between living in the conscious stacking and making the movement to realizing your shadow, a la 4/5 hole. For my shadow stacking(5 through 8: Te, Ni, Se, Fi), something a little different goes on, and I'm not quite sure how to characterize each function process yet, but I think the cycle continues:(I'll edit this later) First, Te is my ignoring, but it's also largely what I'm 'practicing'(E5 continual 'practicing') towards(TiNe building a system which eventually seeks to become Te external 'law'), but this is as far as I've gotten.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 30, 2021 15:31:36 GMT -5
Okay, I want to make some headway with Peterson now but I'll get to this soon anthony!
|
|
anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
|
Post by anthony on May 30, 2021 15:41:11 GMT -5
Okay, I want to make some headway with Peterson now but I'll get to this soon anthony ! Okay, sounds like a plan. By the way, the post you replied to with THIS comment was unedited(and still is), so I would check back here later, because right now I'm updating it.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 31, 2021 13:19:55 GMT -5
First, Te is my ignoring, but it's also largely what I'm 'practicing'(E5 continual 'practicing') towards(TiNe building a system which eventually seeks to become Te external 'law'), but this is as far as I've gotten. Well, yes, but that's what Ti-->Te is anyway. And why Ti correlates to E5 in general. And you are almost a 5 period. Try this on people who aren't Ti dominant and see if the ignore/unignore slot is some kind of continual practicing.
|
|
anthony
Terra9Incognita
Posts: 1,537
Enneagram Core Fix: 9w1
|
Post by anthony on May 31, 2021 15:42:24 GMT -5
Well, for instance, with a stacking like SiTe, they're constantly establishing where everything SIts with respect to already-externalized laws(Te), and in this way are 'continually practicing' towards Se("what the world IS") without ever quite reaching it. You an also say for someone that's FiNe, that through fidelity to their subjective emotional experience(FInding myself), and conscious consideration for the inherent value in a given thing, they're seeking to establish an externalized system of shared values, and this way are continually practicing towards it.
"Continual practicing" may have been a poor choice of words on my part, but I'm specifically attempting to draw a parallel between our relationship to the 5th function and E5—not quite ready to live in an "embodied" manner(with CT it'd be "embodying" the 5th function), but continually 'practicing' towards that end.
The issue with my entire idea here is that you can essentially apply the same logic to say, my Se. You can say that I'm constantly striving to rectify my lack of Se via my Si agenda, and you can then call that a sort of "continual practicing" and arbitrarily connect that to E5. In this particular way, half, if not all of, my proposed idea falls totally apart, and I'm being wary to avoid confirmation bias. But, I'm not at all unconvinced that there isn't a connection between function relationships and the E, so I'm going to continue to tinker with the idea.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 31, 2021 16:21:52 GMT -5
Well, it does seem the second provides the 'help' needed for the third to 'produce' out of the first's emergent 'form', however there remains a 'lack' with the fourth, and then there has to be more 'preparing'...
I was just pointing out that your use of Ti frame to illustrate the fifth falls short because Ti already correlates very, very heavily with E5.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 31, 2021 17:27:08 GMT -5
You know what else is interesting?
Both E7 and the seventh are 'pain avoidant'.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 31, 2021 17:37:20 GMT -5
Also, the sixth demonstrative is 'most sociable' and is also 'socially reactive'.
|
|
|
Post by vincent on May 31, 2021 17:41:37 GMT -5
Riiight, and i guess E8 and 8th are both somewhat "undersocial" and about survival.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 31, 2021 17:45:16 GMT -5
Riiight, and i guess E8 and 8th are both somewhat "undersocial" and about survival. No, 8th role is inherently social role. Offhand, I would see it more in terms of completion, bigness, greatness, 'magnanimity', as in the big kahuna, the whole nine yards (except there is no 9), especially since the socion is itself social.
|
|
|
Post by Roshan on May 31, 2021 17:46:11 GMT -5
Emphasis on "offhand" for real.
|
|
|
Post by vincent on May 31, 2021 17:53:58 GMT -5
No, 8th role is inherently social role. Offhand, I would see it more in terms of completion, bigness, greatness, 'magnanimity', as in the big kahuna, the whole nine yards (except there is no 9), especially since the socion is itself social.
Oh yes, i could see that. "magnanimity" sounds right.
Anyway, my brain is pretty fried right now, i'll have to reread all this and think about it more. But this looks promising at least.
|
|