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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 15:04:13 GMT -5
I noticed that a thing characteristic of tertiary is spawning things into being, without having control over them, whereas auxiliary has control over the thing of the function of their domain but doesn't spawn them into being. I am curious if that is true, and if so, what would be the configurations of those in the rest of the stack? Does dom both spawn and control? What about shadow stack?
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Post by vincent on May 26, 2021 15:44:09 GMT -5
I noticed that a thing characteristic of tertiary is spawning things into being, without having control over them, whereas auxiliary has control over the thing of the function of their domain but doesn't spawn them into being. How did you notice that ?
Could you give some examples of what you call "spawning" and "control" ?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 17:24:13 GMT -5
I noticed that a thing characteristic of tertiary is spawning things into being, without having control over them, whereas auxiliary has control over the thing of the function of their domain but doesn't spawn them into being. How did you notice that ?
Could you give some examples of what you call "spawning" and "control" ?
To spawn something is to manifest it into being, presumably from scratch. To control something is to take something that exists and use or alter it for one's benefit. To spawn something without controlling means to manifest something, but having no way of intervention into its process beyond spawning it. To control something without (the capacity of) spawning it means to be able to affect, use, and alter existing things for one's benefit, but not be able to create one's own. To spawn something and to control it means to create in vacuum of a thing and then control it for one's own benefit.
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Post by Roshan on May 26, 2021 17:48:21 GMT -5
Those are definitions though @ash.
And as Peterson would say, "and fair enough!"
And I'll throw in, "jolly good show!"
Do you have any examples?
With people in them?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2021 18:04:42 GMT -5
Those are definitions though @ash . And as Peterson would say, "and fair enough!" And I'll throw in, "jolly good show!" Do you have any examples? With people in them? For example, Kurt Godel's incompleteness axiom was not proposing a new system, it merely used the old system to show that there can be no axiomatic system that is complete.(auxiliary Ti) On the other hand, you have technical businessmen, which create companies but then are either sold out or no longer have control.(tertiary Te) Similarly, people can create groups for various interests or hobbies or pursuits, but once they create the group, they are no longer able to affect its course.(tertiary Fe)
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Post by Roshan on May 26, 2021 18:40:09 GMT -5
Well, the auxiliary or instrumental is after all like a tool, so utilitarian in essence. It's 'creative' in that it births something, kind of like forceps. The agenda or the mission is that which is born and what is born can't really be subject to parent's or doctor's control for too long. But the way I see it, once this is understood then the third can really plunge into the fourth and then you're playing with a full deck, even if it's bound to be stacked.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2021 4:43:18 GMT -5
What would be the relation to 6th/dom and the rest of the stack?
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Post by Roshan on May 29, 2021 16:32:37 GMT -5
@ash , I think the second row is usually the one that is 'most intact', both orientations are used (except in case of extreme jumpers where sixth is highly preferred so that second may remain underdeveloped).
I think the use of extraverted functions amplifies other extraverted functions and likewise introverted implies introverted, so when someone really starts to unignore the fifth or access the fourth, the fifth and the fourth encourage each other's development, so that will happen more or less simultaneously at average health.
I think the problem is that people get caught up in the sixth as a stress movement. The sixth is the other end of the axis of the PolR. If the fourth is accessed in such a way that it threatens the PolR, there will be a compensatory overuse of the sixth to protect the seventh.
This will stymie the entire process of development. This is what we're seeing with Barby in the Israel video. He did very well accessing his inferior Fi fourth because he knew he had to with the 'very touchy subject', but it threatened his vulnerable Ni seventh. He likes to travel light, TeSi itself uses a 'lego toy' approach to fitting things together. He could sustain quite a bit of Fi but not so much that it would force him into 'nonlinear' vortex meaning Ni (which is centripetal rather than centrifugal Ne, his third). So he overcompensated with stress movement to demonstrative sixth Se and got stuck there.
Even his Ti got weaker, his Fi got formulaic (peacocky), his Si got more piecemeal, nothing really developed despite the potential, but his vulnerable stayed safe.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 16:40:18 GMT -5
@ash , I think the second row is usually the one that is 'most intact', both orientations are used (except in case of extreme jumpers where sixth is highly preferred so that second may remain underdeveloped). I think the use of extraverted functions amplifies other extraverted functions and likewise introverted implies introverted, so when someone really starts to unignore the fifth or access the fourth, the fifth and the fourth encourage each other's development, so that will happen more or less simultaneously at average health. I think the problem is that people get caught up in the sixth as a stress movement. The sixth is the other end of the axis of the PolR. If the fourth is accessed in such a way that it threatens the PolR, there will be a compensatory overuse of the sixth to protect the seventh. This will stymie the entire process of development. This is what we're seeing with Barby in the Israel video. He did very well accessing his inferior Fi fourth because he knew he had to with the 'very touchy subject', but it threatened his vulnerable Ni seventh. He likes to travel light, TeSi itself uses a 'lego toy' approach to fitting things together. He could sustain quite a bit of Fi but not so much that it would force him into 'nonlinear' vortex meaning Ni (which is centripetal rather than centrifugal Ne, his third). So he overcompensated with stress movement to demonstrative sixth Se and got stuck there.Even his Ti got weaker, his Fi got formulaic (peacocky), nothing really developed despite the potential, but his vulnerable stayed safe. So is movement to 6th helpful or impeding in development? I saw it more as 6th being uber-tertiary and dom being uber-aux, in that 6th manifests meta- birth and aux utilizes meta- utilization.
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Post by Roshan on May 29, 2021 16:46:11 GMT -5
Use of sixth to 'demonstrate' happens all the time. And because it 'demonstrates', yes, it gives birth to something in the world.When it's a stress movement that becomes prolonged, the whole process is arrested.
Yes, many people see sixth as something like 'uber-tertiary' and that's why they call it 'shadow agenda'. But I see 'stress movement to sixth' as just that, a stress movement, and its main purpose as protecting the vulnerable function. Sixth stress movement doesn't birth anything; it's more like an abortion to "protect" the mother.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 16:53:29 GMT -5
Use of sixth to 'demonstrate' happens all the time. And because it 'demonstrates', yes, it gives birth to something in the world.When it's a stress movement that becomes prolonged, the whole process is arrested. Yes, many people see sixth as something like 'uber-tertiary' and that's why they call it 'shadow agenda'. But I see 'stress movement to sixth' as just that, a stress movement, and its main purpose as protecting the vulnerable function. Sixth stress movement doesn't birth anything; it's more like an abortion to "protect" the mother. (edited @ash ) An abortion of tertiary?
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Post by Roshan on May 29, 2021 16:54:47 GMT -5
TeSi is very good to look at because it's itself so workmanly. The processes going on may be laid out quite clearly.
What we have been seeing is that the TeSi 'gurus' who are routinely exposed to materials that previously were 'hermetic' are using them in a workmanly fashion with massive Se stress amplification to protect the vulnerable Ni (because the esoteric materials they work with are, or should be, Ni). So what we get are very big blowhards with massive posturings of greatness.
Barby isn't one of those because he's not in such a field, but it's interesting and illustrative to see the parallels with him.
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Post by Roshan on May 29, 2021 17:01:15 GMT -5
An abortion of tertiary? An abortion of growth. It affects everything. But as you can see with the TeSi gurus, it doesn't stop them from planting their flag and proclaiming Ne terra nova.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2021 17:03:34 GMT -5
An abortion of tertiary? An abortion of growth. It affects everything. But as you can see with the TeSi gurus, it doesn't stop them from planting their flag and proclaiming Ne terra nova. Well it does serve an evolutionary purpose. You can't sit in class and diligently focus on what's being taught whilst neglecting the fact you're having a heart attack.
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Post by Roshan on May 29, 2021 17:03:50 GMT -5
Ne terra nova is 'my new ideas'.
Se blowhard is 'I am Caesar'.
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